5 ms·

A fuel pump can fill up 6-7, maybe more cars in the time it takes to partially (say to 80% or so) fill up one electric car. So how is that infrastructure going

by ulfw 3y ago

A fuel pump can fill up 6-7, maybe more cars in the time it takes to partially (say to 80% or so) fill up one electric car. So how is that infrastructure going to work? Edit: funny how few people are trying to comment on the '80% of gas stations shall have ev charging' and rather focus on alternatives to such gas stations, such as home charging, street side charging and what not. The article is about gas station charging, as is my comment.

adrianN 3y ago
People will only fast charge on long trips and slow charge whenever the car is parked, i.e. 22h per day.
- GOTO95 3y ago
  >slow charge whenever the car is parked How does that work for people who live in cities? I like electric cars - less moving parts, less noise, less cost maintaining and driving - but they are utterly useless to me because there is no way I can charge one. Hybrids are ok, though, I can charge in the rare case I'm actually parked near a charger.
  - clouddrover 3y ago
    > How does that work for people who live in cities? With curbside charging, and wireless charging will be convenient once that's rolled out. No cables, just park over the charging plate. It's not like wireless phone charging. It's very efficient: https://insideevs.com/news/340478/120-kw-wireless-charging-proves-97-efficient/ https://insideevs.com/news/340478/120-kw-wireless-charging-p... https://witricity.com/newsroom/blog/what-is-efficiency-how-do-you-measure-it-and-why-should-you-care/ https://witricity.com/newsroom/blog/what-is-efficiency-how-d... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AE1gaNO9nj0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AE1gaNO9nj0
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - LargoLasskhyfv 3y ago
      3̶̚͜L̸̩̎3̷̙͐c̸̼̉T̴̨̔r̶̦͘0̵̥̐5̸̧̑m̴̲͑0̸̛̫g̷̿͜!̸̢̂
  - adrianN 3y ago
    We install curbside chargers
- ulfw 3y ago
  Did you just make that up or...? Where do you 'slow charge' your car when you're the average German renter (i.e. more than half the population). But irrespective of that, what does that have to do with charging times at fuel pumps? https://www.destatis.de/Europa/EN/Topic/Population-Labour-Social-Issues/Social-issues-living-conditions/RentedAccommodation.html https://www.destatis.de/Europa/EN/Topic/Population-Labour-So...
  - adrianN 3y ago
    I charge my car where it is parked, as I said above. Obviously the necessary infrastructure doesn't exist yet, but with EVs only making up a couple percent of the cars on the road that's not really a problem right now.
clouddrover 3y ago
Through the combination of DC fast charging, AC slow charging, and battery swaps. If you've got parking spaces where cars are parked for hours then you've got lots of opportunities for installing DC and AC chargers.
beachy 3y ago
The usage patterns are entirely different. We only charge our EV at home unless going on a long range trip. For the few occasions we do charge on the road, I have no problems waiting a bit longer to charge than it would take to pump gas into a tank.
- Bissness 3y ago
  The problem is that many (most?) people won't be able to charge at home. Living in apartments, using public parking spaces. Owning an EV in that circumstance sucks.
  - Kim_Bruning 3y ago
    Don't know where you live, but I'm seeing more and more public parking spaces and apartment parking lots with charging poles both in Netherlands and Germany.
    - pjmlp 3y ago
      In German cities during the night, the streets look hardly different from southern countries, where any place that a car is able to fit goes. Is the only time of the day where police and civil police (ordungsamt) seem to close their eyes to what is clearly a violation of proper parking. A couple of chargers here and there, hardly help.
      - b3orn 3y ago
        True, but I think the solution to that problem is simply less cars. On-street parking it's a huge subsidy for car owners, if people had to prove that they own a parking space fewer people would have cars.
        pjmlp 3y ago
        Most people buy cars because even in European cities public transport sucks, unless one lives right into the city center. A few km into the suburbs and hello to 1 - 2 hours transit time to come into the city center, with multiple connections, delays, dropped connections, stuffed with as much humans as possible, freezing in Winter, cooking in Summer,....
traceroute66 3y ago
> A fuel pump can fill up 6-7, maybe more cars in the time it takes to partially (say to 80% or so) fill up one electric car. This is precisely my point with EV. Don't get me wrong, I WANT to buy EV, but the whole ecosystem is still not quite mature enough. With my petrol car, I can turn up at a gas station with the tank near-empty and I can fill it up to full in 5 minutes, or 8 minutes tops if I'm "running on fumes". Meanwhile if I turn up with an EV (any EV, even a Tesla on the superchargers) with 8–10% charge left, I need to sit in a godforsaken carpark twiddling my thumbs for 15–20 minutes and that ONLY gets me to 80% charge, if I wanted 100% charge (i.e. on-par with a full-tank on petrol) I'd be sitting there forever. I'm not talking out of my head or from heresy. On a recent holiday I hired a top of the range EV and did a lot of driving as it was a road-trip type holiday. So I'm speaking from first-hand experience here. (And before the EV-fanbois come along, yes I did my homework, yes I spoke to friends who are EV owners before I left, so I was absolutely up-to-date on the latest "how to do it" for the exact car I rented). So yeah, charging ABSOLUTELY needs to get to a point where it's on-par with "splash and dash" in the petrol world. The related point is batteries. Clearly more mature batteries equals more range equals less need to charge. So that is another area ripe for more maturity.
- robertlagrant 3y ago
  > So yeah, charging ABSOLUTELY needs to get to a point where it's on-par with "splash and dash" in the petrol world I don't think there's anyone in the world who wouldn't like this, and there are many people already working on it. But I would say: you don't seem to be justifying the statement I've quoted. You're speaking from experience to say that filling up an EV from 0-100% is slower than an ICE vehicle, but everyone knows that. You're not saying why every EV needs this for everyone's case, aside from your use of capital letters. The reality is that would be nice (or having a fusion reactor where I never have to fill up again would be nicer), but there are plenty of people and journeys that happen in ways that EVs could easily fulfil, and the zero to three journeys a year most people do that require a long uninterrupted haul across hundreds of miles might have to be planned a little differently, or might require the renting of an ICE car.
  - traceroute66 3y ago

by ulfw 3y ago

adrianN 3y ago

People will only fast charge on long trips and slow charge whenever the car is parked, i.e. 22h per day.

GOTO95 3y ago
>slow charge whenever the car is parked How does that work for people who live in cities? I like electric cars - less moving parts, less noise, less cost maintaining and driving - but they are utterly useless to me because there is no way I can charge one. Hybrids are ok, though, I can charge in the rare case I'm actually parked near a charger.
- clouddrover 3y ago
  > How does that work for people who live in cities? With curbside charging, and wireless charging will be convenient once that's rolled out. No cables, just park over the charging plate. It's not like wireless phone charging. It's very efficient: https://insideevs.com/news/340478/120-kw-wireless-charging-proves-97-efficient/ https://insideevs.com/news/340478/120-kw-wireless-charging-p... https://witricity.com/newsroom/blog/what-is-efficiency-how-do-you-measure-it-and-why-should-you-care/ https://witricity.com/newsroom/blog/what-is-efficiency-how-d... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AE1gaNO9nj0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AE1gaNO9nj0
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - LargoLasskhyfv 3y ago
    3̶̚͜L̸̩̎3̷̙͐c̸̼̉T̴̨̔r̶̦͘0̵̥̐5̸̧̑m̴̲͑0̸̛̫g̷̿͜!̸̢̂
- adrianN 3y ago
  We install curbside chargers
ulfw 3y ago
Did you just make that up or...? Where do you 'slow charge' your car when you're the average German renter (i.e. more than half the population). But irrespective of that, what does that have to do with charging times at fuel pumps? https://www.destatis.de/Europa/EN/Topic/Population-Labour-Social-Issues/Social-issues-living-conditions/RentedAccommodation.html https://www.destatis.de/Europa/EN/Topic/Population-Labour-So...
- adrianN 3y ago
  I charge my car where it is parked, as I said above. Obviously the necessary infrastructure doesn't exist yet, but with EVs only making up a couple percent of the cars on the road that's not really a problem right now.

clouddrover 3y ago

Through the combination of DC fast charging, AC slow charging, and battery swaps. If you've got parking spaces where cars are parked for hours then you've got lots of opportunities for installing DC and AC chargers.

beachy 3y ago

The usage patterns are entirely different. We only charge our EV at home unless going on a long range trip. For the few occasions we do charge on the road, I have no problems waiting a bit longer to charge than it would take to pump gas into a tank.

Bissness 3y ago
The problem is that many (most?) people won't be able to charge at home. Living in apartments, using public parking spaces. Owning an EV in that circumstance sucks.
- Kim_Bruning 3y ago
  Don't know where you live, but I'm seeing more and more public parking spaces and apartment parking lots with charging poles both in Netherlands and Germany.
  - pjmlp 3y ago
    In German cities during the night, the streets look hardly different from southern countries, where any place that a car is able to fit goes. Is the only time of the day where police and civil police (ordungsamt) seem to close their eyes to what is clearly a violation of proper parking. A couple of chargers here and there, hardly help.
    - b3orn 3y ago
      True, but I think the solution to that problem is simply less cars. On-street parking it's a huge subsidy for car owners, if people had to prove that they own a parking space fewer people would have cars.
      - pjmlp 3y ago
        Most people buy cars because even in European cities public transport sucks, unless one lives right into the city center. A few km into the suburbs and hello to 1 - 2 hours transit time to come into the city center, with multiple connections, delays, dropped connections, stuffed with as much humans as possible, freezing in Winter, cooking in Summer,....

traceroute66 3y ago

> A fuel pump can fill up 6-7, maybe more cars in the time it takes to partially (say to 80% or so) fill up one electric car. This is precisely my point with EV. Don't get me wrong, I WANT to buy EV, but the whole ecosystem is still not quite mature enough. With my petrol car, I can turn up at a gas station with the tank near-empty and I can fill it up to full in 5 minutes, or 8 minutes tops if I'm "running on fumes". Meanwhile if I turn up with an EV (any EV, even a Tesla on the superchargers) with 8–10% charge left, I need to sit in a godforsaken carpark twiddling my thumbs for 15–20 minutes and that ONLY gets me to 80% charge, if I wanted 100% charge (i.e. on-par with a full-tank on petrol) I'd be sitting there forever. I'm not talking out of my head or from heresy. On a recent holiday I hired a top of the range EV and did a lot of driving as it was a road-trip type holiday. So I'm speaking from first-hand experience here. (And before the EV-fanbois come along, yes I did my homework, yes I spoke to friends who are EV owners before I left, so I was absolutely up-to-date on the latest "how to do it" for the exact car I rented). So yeah, charging ABSOLUTELY needs to get to a point where it's on-par with "splash and dash" in the petrol world. The related point is batteries. Clearly more mature batteries equals more range equals less need to charge. So that is another area ripe for more maturity.

robertlagrant 3y ago
> So yeah, charging ABSOLUTELY needs to get to a point where it's on-par with "splash and dash" in the petrol world I don't think there's anyone in the world who wouldn't like this, and there are many people already working on it. But I would say: you don't seem to be justifying the statement I've quoted. You're speaking from experience to say that filling up an EV from 0-100% is slower than an ICE vehicle, but everyone knows that. You're not saying why every EV needs this for everyone's case, aside from your use of capital letters. The reality is that would be nice (or having a fusion reactor where I never have to fill up again would be nicer), but there are plenty of people and journeys that happen in ways that EVs could easily fulfil, and the zero to three journeys a year most people do that require a long uninterrupted haul across hundreds of miles might have to be planned a little differently, or might require the renting of an ICE car.
- traceroute66 3y ago