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This strikes me as the same as saying “but the homeless person might take my $5 to buy whiskey instead of a hot meal.” Or, possibly more apropos to your exampl

This strikes me as the same as saying “but the homeless person might take my $5 to buy whiskey instead of a hot meal.” Or, possibly more apropos to your example, “how do I know my medical debt relief payment goes to someone who truly Deserves It because of bad luck and not someone whose poor diet and exercise habits lead to their stroke?” The system is designed to turn bad choices into bad luck - and the opposite - and to pass moral judgements on those who need help. Reject the framing and help people; most are good and deserving.

dylan604 3y ago
If you want to think of me in that tone, then fine, but I never caveated the medical debt. As the sibling comment to you said, medical debt in a civilized society is just wrong. So I really don't care why the medical care was needed. Helping people out of debt for medical reasons is commendable. The thing I specifically caveated was people making bad financial decisions on their own. Sure, maybe giving an 18 year old $5k credit limit is not a smart thing on the creditor's part, but not everyone financing retail therapy sessions via credit is an 18 year old. The whole 30 thousandaire outspending their earnings for FOMO or keeping up with the Joneses or whatever does not seem like something we need to bail out.
- dpig_ 3y ago
  Robin Hood, robbing the rich to give to the [morally validated].
  - dylan604 3y ago
    There's a huuuuge difference from being poor serfs in the feudal lord's fiefdom than someone that can't say no to a sale but can't actually afford it and buys on credit.
    - dpig_ 3y ago
      Or you can just do charity without deciding you also must be a moral arbiter.
      - refurb 3y ago
        Or you can't do charity that just enables poor behavior and traps people in it.
  - lgeorget 3y ago
    Not the parent commenter but to chime in: I don't want to be a moral judge but I'd rather give money to someone actually poor than to someone richer than me that just lives beyond their means.
- SamoyedFurFluff 3y ago
  Frankly the vast majority of people with credit card debt I know still deserve relief. Even people who are under significant credit card debt due to frivolous spending— they likely need therapy or time to budget or similar but now they cannot due to the crushing weight and stress of credit card debt. Or they could’ve been able to pay it off but an emergency happened and they got laid off or they were already barely scraping by and now their car broke down or something. I think we worry too much about what if undeserving people receive help. Most people are good people who just got caught out on something and could use some help getting themselves out of some goddamn 25% interest craziness.
DiggyJohnson 3y ago
You’ve misread the context so this insult is really out of place. GP is referring to credit card debt, not medical debt.
- calfuris 3y ago
  I don't think that there was any misreading there. GP is applying GGP's logic to a different kind of debt to make a point.
  - dylan604 3y ago
    I said that I wasn't familiar with the concept of buying credit debt, but specifically said I was familiar with buy medical debt. I then compare and contrasted how I feel they are different. I also said that buying credit debt isn't necessarily a bad thing, but due diligence should be applied to whose debt is getting wiped out. You've spun into something it's not to make a point. Which I'm still not sure what it is
philwelch 3y ago
> This strikes me as the same as saying “but the homeless person might take my $5 to buy whiskey instead of a hot meal.” Which is still a valid point. Don’t give cash to homeless people.
- dylan604 3y ago
  Don't give cash to addicts
  - philwelch 3y ago
    Or people who are likely to be addicts, i.e. homeless people.
    - dylan604 3y ago
      if you're talking about the random person that approaches you on the street, then yes, that's a high possibility. but there are homeless that are not addicts and don't necessarily live on the streets. i think this confusion is something holding back progress on homelessness.
      - philwelch 3y ago
        When you say “don’t give cash to homeless people” obviously you’re talking about beggars and street vagrants, not whatever demographic some NGO has decided to formally define as “homeless” in order to game the statistics.
        dylan604 3y ago
        First, I didn't say "don't give cash to homeless people" because I do have a very different interpretation of being homeless. The view you take sounds like you've been privileged enough to have never been homeless yourself. I promise you will think of homelessness in a very different manner if you ever have the misfortune of being homeless. I specifically modified the comment to call out addicts. I have on multiple occasions helped someone out that was facing some very difficult decisions because of not having a place to stay. People that are not addicts can be put in making choices that they would never even consider in a normal situation, but we faced with sleeping in a car/street/public shelter, those choices suddenly start to look more acceptable. Even more so if you have kids.

dylan604 3y ago

If you want to think of me in that tone, then fine, but I never caveated the medical debt. As the sibling comment to you said, medical debt in a civilized society is just wrong. So I really don't care why the medical care was needed. Helping people out of debt for medical reasons is commendable. The thing I specifically caveated was people making bad financial decisions on their own. Sure, maybe giving an 18 year old $5k credit limit is not a smart thing on the creditor's part, but not everyone financing retail therapy sessions via credit is an 18 year old. The whole 30 thousandaire outspending their earnings for FOMO or keeping up with the Joneses or whatever does not seem like something we need to bail out.

dpig_ 3y ago
Robin Hood, robbing the rich to give to the [morally validated].
- dylan604 3y ago
  There's a huuuuge difference from being poor serfs in the feudal lord's fiefdom than someone that can't say no to a sale but can't actually afford it and buys on credit.
  - dpig_ 3y ago
    Or you can just do charity without deciding you also must be a moral arbiter.
    - refurb 3y ago
      Or you can't do charity that just enables poor behavior and traps people in it.
- lgeorget 3y ago
  Not the parent commenter but to chime in: I don't want to be a moral judge but I'd rather give money to someone actually poor than to someone richer than me that just lives beyond their means.
SamoyedFurFluff 3y ago
Frankly the vast majority of people with credit card debt I know still deserve relief. Even people who are under significant credit card debt due to frivolous spending— they likely need therapy or time to budget or similar but now they cannot due to the crushing weight and stress of credit card debt. Or they could’ve been able to pay it off but an emergency happened and they got laid off or they were already barely scraping by and now their car broke down or something. I think we worry too much about what if undeserving people receive help. Most people are good people who just got caught out on something and could use some help getting themselves out of some goddamn 25% interest craziness.

DiggyJohnson 3y ago

You’ve misread the context so this insult is really out of place. GP is referring to credit card debt, not medical debt.

calfuris 3y ago
I don't think that there was any misreading there. GP is applying GGP's logic to a different kind of debt to make a point.
- dylan604 3y ago
  I said that I wasn't familiar with the concept of buying credit debt, but specifically said I was familiar with buy medical debt. I then compare and contrasted how I feel they are different. I also said that buying credit debt isn't necessarily a bad thing, but due diligence should be applied to whose debt is getting wiped out. You've spun into something it's not to make a point. Which I'm still not sure what it is

philwelch 3y ago

> This strikes me as the same as saying “but the homeless person might take my $5 to buy whiskey instead of a hot meal.” Which is still a valid point. Don’t give cash to homeless people.

dylan604 3y ago
Don't give cash to addicts
- philwelch 3y ago
  Or people who are likely to be addicts, i.e. homeless people.
  - dylan604 3y ago
    if you're talking about the random person that approaches you on the street, then yes, that's a high possibility. but there are homeless that are not addicts and don't necessarily live on the streets. i think this confusion is something holding back progress on homelessness.
    - philwelch 3y ago
      When you say “don’t give cash to homeless people” obviously you’re talking about beggars and street vagrants, not whatever demographic some NGO has decided to formally define as “homeless” in order to game the statistics.
      - dylan604 3y ago
        First, I didn't say "don't give cash to homeless people" because I do have a very different interpretation of being homeless. The view you take sounds like you've been privileged enough to have never been homeless yourself. I promise you will think of homelessness in a very different manner if you ever have the misfortune of being homeless. I specifically modified the comment to call out addicts. I have on multiple occasions helped someone out that was facing some very difficult decisions because of not having a place to stay. People that are not addicts can be put in making choices that they would never even consider in a normal situation, but we faced with sleeping in a car/street/public shelter, those choices suddenly start to look more acceptable. Even more so if you have kids.