4 ms·

I commute through Penn Station three days a week, I can't understate how terrible it is for commuters. Every morning when I exit the train to a blast of heat o

I commute through Penn Station three days a week, I can't understate how terrible it is for commuters. Every morning when I exit the train to a blast of heat on cramped platforms, wait in line for my turn to weave up a tiny staircase, into the aging waiting halls with hoses routing ceiling leaks into trash cans, zig zag through a labyrinth of low-ceiling corridors, giving a wide berth to half-naked mentally ill people, to a side exit (since the main exit has been closed for months, and finally, as icing on the cake, I jump over a permanent puddle created by construction barriers RIGHT at the crosswalk where THOUSANDS of people exit the busiest train station in the entire country, I think about the line: “One entered the city like a god. One scuttles in now like a rat.”

doctorpangloss 3y ago
I don't think the statistics about journey times on public transit anywhere are true. Or they are fundamentally dishonest, in the sense that they should be measured relative to cars, biking and walking. Whether I was a suburban commuter in Chicago or cross-town commuter in Boston, public transit was so crazy slow. In San Francisco it is insanely slow. In New York it was so utterly baffling how long it took to get from Brooklyn to Manhattan on the subway. Like 3-4x a bike, 1-2x a car. Bike consistently beat out everything in any locale they work in. You don't need any stats to understand why: (1) you never have to wait for one, (2) you very rarely need to walk further to your destination than a car, and (3) you never have to waste time parking it. But here we are, still arguing about bike infrastructure, even San Francisco can't help itself and would, rather than a nice bike lane 7 days a week, it wants to give some mega church free parking 1 day a week. It loves little nurt nurt trains shlepping 0 passengers most of the day. Those red bus lanes... Does it make sense to subject anyone to the misery of living in New Jersey to work in New York? Those suckers pay taxes higher than the French to live like a budget suburb in Los Angeles. It's just so stupid. Maybe work from home is the only reprieve for millions of Americans.
- macNchz 3y ago
  > In New York it was so utterly baffling how long it took to get from Brooklyn to Manhattan on the subway. Like 3-4x a bike, 1-2x a car. I live in Brooklyn and commuted to Manhattan 5 days a week before 2020, primarily by subway, but occasionally by car and a few times by bike, and this was not my experience. At rush hour the subway was consistently faster than a car, and I think comparable if maybe a bit slower than a bike, but certainly not 4x. For a road distance of 3-6 miles between various offices/home addresses I spent 25-45 minutes door-to-door on the subway. I’m a big proponent of cycling infrastructure but I’m not sure I’d choose to commute by bike if I went back to working in an office, though I imagine a modern ebike would go a long way towards helping with the sweat factor.
  - eptcyka 3y ago
    The e-bike only works if you keep below the speed at which it's mandated to stop assisting. If one has a mental disability that urges the individual to pass by any and all cyclists in front of them, an e-bike will not relieve them from the necessity to shower.
  - doctorpangloss 3y ago
    I am only talking about e-bikes.
- TedDoesntTalk 3y ago
  Never going to risk my life commuting by bike in NYC. Dont push your lifestyle onto me. Or in the vernacular, “You do you.” I’ll stick with the subway.
  - midoridensha 3y ago
    If NYC had proper bike infrastructure, it wouldn't be so unsafe.
    - TedDoesntTalk 3y ago
      Yes it would. Cars and bikes don’t magically change their mass with “proper bike infrastructure”. An asshole NY driver can still kill you with ease.
      - eptcyka 3y ago
        There'd be less opportunity for fatal crashes due to the surface area between cycle paths and car paths being reduced. This would literally mean that it'd be safer if there was better infrastructure.
      - CptFribble 3y ago
        Proper bike infrastructure isn't just extra lanes next to cars. Typically "proper" includes things like protective walls, and bridges specifically for bikes + pedestrians separate from cars. It is entirely possible to design bike infrastructure that removes car impacts from the equation - we have the technology, we only lack the political will.
      - JambalayaJim 3y ago
        An asshole NYC driver can kill a pedestrian with ease too. Do you feel unsafe walking on the sidewalk or crossing at intersections? Why is that? Could it be because of good grade separated pedestrian infrastructure and cultural norms that protect pedestrians?
      - Muromec 3y ago
        Proper bike infrastructure is for example a line of trees between a cycling path and a road. Or a moat with water and angry homeless drug addicted goose. Reading the comments here makes me think drug addicts in the streets work quite well as urban planning tool is US.
- Doctor_Fegg 3y ago
  > Bike consistently beat out everything in any locale they work in. That’s absolutely not true and I say that as a massive cycling advocate. There are countless journeys in London which are fastest by public transport, especially since the coming of the Elizabeth Line.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  > I don't think the statistics about journey times on public transit anywhere are true. Journey times everywhere should come with variance data. Often times people will say you can get to Manhattan within x minutes from a certain location, except 1 standard deviation from the mean could be 30min+, and 2 standard deviations might be 60min+.
xyzelement 3y ago
I suppose you're heading east. If not, exiting through the new Moynihan hall - 8th avenue side - is a totally different experience.
bdhess 3y ago
The station has hundreds of staircases and dozens of entrances. If you commute into it three days a week and haven't found a path that's workable, maybe the train station isn't the problem.
- reustle 3y ago
  I walked through Penn station at least twice a day for years, and now I've lived in Tokyo for over 6 years. I can assure you, Penn Station is definitely the problem.

doctorpangloss 3y ago

I don't think the statistics about journey times on public transit anywhere are true. Or they are fundamentally dishonest, in the sense that they should be measured relative to cars, biking and walking. Whether I was a suburban commuter in Chicago or cross-town commuter in Boston, public transit was so crazy slow. In San Francisco it is insanely slow. In New York it was so utterly baffling how long it took to get from Brooklyn to Manhattan on the subway. Like 3-4x a bike, 1-2x a car. Bike consistently beat out everything in any locale they work in. You don't need any stats to understand why: (1) you never have to wait for one, (2) you very rarely need to walk further to your destination than a car, and (3) you never have to waste time parking it. But here we are, still arguing about bike infrastructure, even San Francisco can't help itself and would, rather than a nice bike lane 7 days a week, it wants to give some mega church free parking 1 day a week. It loves little nurt nurt trains shlepping 0 passengers most of the day. Those red bus lanes... Does it make sense to subject anyone to the misery of living in New Jersey to work in New York? Those suckers pay taxes higher than the French to live like a budget suburb in Los Angeles. It's just so stupid. Maybe work from home is the only reprieve for millions of Americans.

macNchz 3y ago
> In New York it was so utterly baffling how long it took to get from Brooklyn to Manhattan on the subway. Like 3-4x a bike, 1-2x a car. I live in Brooklyn and commuted to Manhattan 5 days a week before 2020, primarily by subway, but occasionally by car and a few times by bike, and this was not my experience. At rush hour the subway was consistently faster than a car, and I think comparable if maybe a bit slower than a bike, but certainly not 4x. For a road distance of 3-6 miles between various offices/home addresses I spent 25-45 minutes door-to-door on the subway. I’m a big proponent of cycling infrastructure but I’m not sure I’d choose to commute by bike if I went back to working in an office, though I imagine a modern ebike would go a long way towards helping with the sweat factor.
- eptcyka 3y ago
  The e-bike only works if you keep below the speed at which it's mandated to stop assisting. If one has a mental disability that urges the individual to pass by any and all cyclists in front of them, an e-bike will not relieve them from the necessity to shower.
- doctorpangloss 3y ago
  I am only talking about e-bikes.
TedDoesntTalk 3y ago
Never going to risk my life commuting by bike in NYC. Dont push your lifestyle onto me. Or in the vernacular, “You do you.” I’ll stick with the subway.
- midoridensha 3y ago
  If NYC had proper bike infrastructure, it wouldn't be so unsafe.
  - TedDoesntTalk 3y ago
    Yes it would. Cars and bikes don’t magically change their mass with “proper bike infrastructure”. An asshole NY driver can still kill you with ease.
    - eptcyka 3y ago
      There'd be less opportunity for fatal crashes due to the surface area between cycle paths and car paths being reduced. This would literally mean that it'd be safer if there was better infrastructure.
    - CptFribble 3y ago
      Proper bike infrastructure isn't just extra lanes next to cars. Typically "proper" includes things like protective walls, and bridges specifically for bikes + pedestrians separate from cars. It is entirely possible to design bike infrastructure that removes car impacts from the equation - we have the technology, we only lack the political will.
    - JambalayaJim 3y ago
      An asshole NYC driver can kill a pedestrian with ease too. Do you feel unsafe walking on the sidewalk or crossing at intersections? Why is that? Could it be because of good grade separated pedestrian infrastructure and cultural norms that protect pedestrians?
    - Muromec 3y ago
      Proper bike infrastructure is for example a line of trees between a cycling path and a road. Or a moat with water and angry homeless drug addicted goose. Reading the comments here makes me think drug addicts in the streets work quite well as urban planning tool is US.
Doctor_Fegg 3y ago
> Bike consistently beat out everything in any locale they work in. That’s absolutely not true and I say that as a massive cycling advocate. There are countless journeys in London which are fastest by public transport, especially since the coming of the Elizabeth Line.
lotsofpulp 3y ago
> I don't think the statistics about journey times on public transit anywhere are true. Journey times everywhere should come with variance data. Often times people will say you can get to Manhattan within x minutes from a certain location, except 1 standard deviation from the mean could be 30min+, and 2 standard deviations might be 60min+.

xyzelement 3y ago

I suppose you're heading east. If not, exiting through the new Moynihan hall - 8th avenue side - is a totally different experience.

bdhess 3y ago

The station has hundreds of staircases and dozens of entrances. If you commute into it three days a week and haven't found a path that's workable, maybe the train station isn't the problem.

reustle 3y ago
I walked through Penn station at least twice a day for years, and now I've lived in Tokyo for over 6 years. I can assure you, Penn Station is definitely the problem.