4 ms·

What's wrong with establishing a governing body to give it's seal of approval, and letting consumers rely on that? If we had DOPs from the outset, we'd have a

What's wrong with establishing a governing body to give it's seal of approval, and letting consumers rely on that? If we had DOPs from the outset, we'd have a huge number of extra names for the non-regional versions of foods. Additionally, Italian regulatory bodies are well known for not giving a shit about the products that are exported from Italy, so getting the certified "real thing" isn't a good indicator that, for example, your olive oil is even real olive oil.

deleted 3y ago
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petre 3y ago
There is a whole host of such bodies in every EA Multilateral Agreement signatory contry. They're called NABs (national acreditation bodies), there are other CABs (conformity acreditation bodies). Also EA MLA signatories include non EU contries such as the UK, Turkye, Albania, Ukraine, Egypt, etc. https://european-accreditation.org https://european-accreditation.org Olive oil is just vegetable oil made out of olives, but if "Lakonia olive oil" is registered as a PDO then it could only be made in the Greek region of Lakonia using local olives. Olive oil adulterated with other vegetable oils shouldn't be called "olive oil" in the first place. Some "Italian" olive oils are actually from Spain or a mix due to more competitive prices from Spain and EU subsidies. Btw, 2023 is a disastrous year for olive oil producers in Spain because of the spring heatwave which affected the flowering. It's so bad that there was a heist last week involving two tank trailers containing 500 hl worth of Spanish olive oil ready for bottling, totaling €0.5M.
- strbean 3y ago
  I wasn't very clear what my point was: What is wrong with relying on the trademark for such a body's seal of approval, rather than constructing what is essentially a trademark on the name of a product, which is already firmly part of the commons? Why do you need to prohibit others from using the name Parmesan, when consumers can look for the seal (if the body is trustworthy)? > Olive oil is just... https://www.forbes.com/sites/ceciliarodriguez/2016/02/10/the-olive-oil-scam-if-80-is-fake-why-do-you-keep-buying-it/?sh=397e4987639d https://www.forbes.com/sites/ceciliarodriguez/2016/02/10/the... Salient bit: > Even the labels bearing the coveted "Protected Designation of Origin" or PDO stamp indicating the precise geographical origin of a particular extra virgin olive oil to ensure the quality of that region’s agricultural products, and which are subjected to more strict controls, have not escaped the illegal trend. If the government-sanctioned group that gets to essentially trademark terms hundreds of years old (and take them out of the commons) can't do a good job ensuring that the product isn't adulterated, maybe it would be better if these were industry-established groups that could compete with each other to establish a reputation of reliability.
  - DennisP 3y ago
    Nobody is prohibited from using the name "parmesan," which is a relatively recent term. That's why you can buy powdered "parmesan" from your grocery store that's up to 8% cellulose and made in the US. People are prohibited from using the name "Parmigiano Reggiano," which for centuries was not a general term, but the name of the specific regional cheese. What tends to happen is that a name that gets famous for some high-quality regional food is then used by someone else making a lower-quality food that's cheaper to produce, which does mislead consumers. This is exactly the sort of thing trademarks are for. A great book on all this is Real Food, Fake Food.
    - strbean 3y ago
      In the US, yes, but we have a history of ignoring or only partially adhering to these types of restrictions. In Europe, this is not the case: > Within the European Union, the term "Parmesan" may be used, by law, to refer only to Parmigiano Reggiano itself, which must be made in a restricted geographic area, using stringently defined methods. See also champagne vs. méthode champenoise vs. méthode vs. méthode traditionnelle. In the EU you can't even use the second option anymore. In California, it was initially referred to by the first option, then the second, and now a mix of the second and the third. I don't think this is helping consumers at all. If they want champagne from the Champagne region of France, they can tell immediately from the label.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

petre 3y ago

There is a whole host of such bodies in every EA Multilateral Agreement signatory contry. They're called NABs (national acreditation bodies), there are other CABs (conformity acreditation bodies). Also EA MLA signatories include non EU contries such as the UK, Turkye, Albania, Ukraine, Egypt, etc. https://european-accreditation.org https://european-accreditation.org Olive oil is just vegetable oil made out of olives, but if "Lakonia olive oil" is registered as a PDO then it could only be made in the Greek region of Lakonia using local olives. Olive oil adulterated with other vegetable oils shouldn't be called "olive oil" in the first place. Some "Italian" olive oils are actually from Spain or a mix due to more competitive prices from Spain and EU subsidies. Btw, 2023 is a disastrous year for olive oil producers in Spain because of the spring heatwave which affected the flowering. It's so bad that there was a heist last week involving two tank trailers containing 500 hl worth of Spanish olive oil ready for bottling, totaling €0.5M.

strbean 3y ago
I wasn't very clear what my point was: What is wrong with relying on the trademark for such a body's seal of approval, rather than constructing what is essentially a trademark on the name of a product, which is already firmly part of the commons? Why do you need to prohibit others from using the name Parmesan, when consumers can look for the seal (if the body is trustworthy)? > Olive oil is just... https://www.forbes.com/sites/ceciliarodriguez/2016/02/10/the-olive-oil-scam-if-80-is-fake-why-do-you-keep-buying-it/?sh=397e4987639d https://www.forbes.com/sites/ceciliarodriguez/2016/02/10/the... Salient bit: > Even the labels bearing the coveted "Protected Designation of Origin" or PDO stamp indicating the precise geographical origin of a particular extra virgin olive oil to ensure the quality of that region’s agricultural products, and which are subjected to more strict controls, have not escaped the illegal trend. If the government-sanctioned group that gets to essentially trademark terms hundreds of years old (and take them out of the commons) can't do a good job ensuring that the product isn't adulterated, maybe it would be better if these were industry-established groups that could compete with each other to establish a reputation of reliability.
- DennisP 3y ago
  Nobody is prohibited from using the name "parmesan," which is a relatively recent term. That's why you can buy powdered "parmesan" from your grocery store that's up to 8% cellulose and made in the US. People are prohibited from using the name "Parmigiano Reggiano," which for centuries was not a general term, but the name of the specific regional cheese. What tends to happen is that a name that gets famous for some high-quality regional food is then used by someone else making a lower-quality food that's cheaper to produce, which does mislead consumers. This is exactly the sort of thing trademarks are for. A great book on all this is Real Food, Fake Food.
  - strbean 3y ago
    In the US, yes, but we have a history of ignoring or only partially adhering to these types of restrictions. In Europe, this is not the case: > Within the European Union, the term "Parmesan" may be used, by law, to refer only to Parmigiano Reggiano itself, which must be made in a restricted geographic area, using stringently defined methods. See also champagne vs. méthode champenoise vs. méthode vs. méthode traditionnelle. In the EU you can't even use the second option anymore. In California, it was initially referred to by the first option, then the second, and now a mix of the second and the third. I don't think this is helping consumers at all. If they want champagne from the Champagne region of France, they can tell immediately from the label.