4 ms·

> It is not the spec's fault that some cheap knockoff brands violate the spec to save a few pennies Yes it is. The spec could have been written such that diff

by _jal 3y ago

> It is not the spec's fault that some cheap knockoff brands violate the spec to save a few pennies Yes it is. The spec could have been written such that different capabilities were reflected with different physical characteristics. That is exactly what standards exist to do. Even if we pretend spec writers wouldn't ever have predicted the proliferation of crappy cables before publishing it, this is not a new problem with USB. It is absolutely a choice made by the USB Implementers Forum.

fomine3 3y ago
They just ignore spec
CrazyStat 3y ago
> The spec could have been written such that different capabilities were reflected with different physical characteristics. And the cheap knockoff brands would have just violated the spec written that way like they violate the current spec.
- OJFord 3y ago
  I suppose hypothetically you could have data capability built in to the power negotiation pairs, so that it wasn't possible to offer charging without also some amount of data... but quite some complexity to add as a trade-off, not an obvious choice.
  - chipsa 3y ago
    Conveniently, that's actually the case. A USB-C port should provide no power if there's nothing plugged in, and that's sensed by the data connection pairs. However, to support A-C adapters, you can fake it through the normal connection there. This is why some things that have a C port won't charge on a C-C cable, but will on a A-C cable, because they don't actually talk to say they need power, but the A port will provide some power regardless, but a C port won't.
- _jal 3y ago
  Missing the point. Power-only cables should be specified to have a different connector. Vastly different speeds should have a different connector. It should be physically impossible to stick the wrong kind of cable in.
  - cchance 3y ago
    That ... wouldn't be USB lol, if every version has a different connector it's not... universal lol
  - brianpan 3y ago
    I think you might be missing the point. Power and data in the same cable is a huge advantage of USB-C (both Apple connectors had power and data in the same cable). Third parties will make out-of-spec cables no matter what. Some of the ways that Apple has addressed this is the "Made for" program which goes back even to the iPod. And the devices themselves detecting and showing an "Accessory may not be supported" error message, again going back to the iPod.
  - ninkendo 3y ago
    There is no spec for power-only USB-C cables. Anyone making one is doing so against the spec. You can’t use a spec to solve the problem of going against the spec.
  - kalleboo 3y ago
    So now my phone needs 4 different ports on it for all the different capabilities it has?

by _jal 3y ago

fomine3 3y ago

They just ignore spec

CrazyStat 3y ago

> The spec could have been written such that different capabilities were reflected with different physical characteristics. And the cheap knockoff brands would have just violated the spec written that way like they violate the current spec.

OJFord 3y ago
I suppose hypothetically you could have data capability built in to the power negotiation pairs, so that it wasn't possible to offer charging without also some amount of data... but quite some complexity to add as a trade-off, not an obvious choice.
- chipsa 3y ago
  Conveniently, that's actually the case. A USB-C port should provide no power if there's nothing plugged in, and that's sensed by the data connection pairs. However, to support A-C adapters, you can fake it through the normal connection there. This is why some things that have a C port won't charge on a C-C cable, but will on a A-C cable, because they don't actually talk to say they need power, but the A port will provide some power regardless, but a C port won't.
_jal 3y ago
Missing the point. Power-only cables should be specified to have a different connector. Vastly different speeds should have a different connector. It should be physically impossible to stick the wrong kind of cable in.
- cchance 3y ago
  That ... wouldn't be USB lol, if every version has a different connector it's not... universal lol
- brianpan 3y ago
  I think you might be missing the point. Power and data in the same cable is a huge advantage of USB-C (both Apple connectors had power and data in the same cable). Third parties will make out-of-spec cables no matter what. Some of the ways that Apple has addressed this is the "Made for" program which goes back even to the iPod. And the devices themselves detecting and showing an "Accessory may not be supported" error message, again going back to the iPod.
- ninkendo 3y ago
  There is no spec for power-only USB-C cables. Anyone making one is doing so against the spec. You can’t use a spec to solve the problem of going against the spec.
- kalleboo 3y ago
  So now my phone needs 4 different ports on it for all the different capabilities it has?