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People trot this tired "point" out way too much here with too little of the obvious rebuttal - you do not under any circumstances actually need to use these se

People trot this tired "point" out way too much here with too little of the obvious rebuttal - you do not under any circumstances actually need to use these services for them to use and collect data points on you.

cooper_ganglia 3y ago
The most frustrating for me is social media apps constantly asking you to share your contacts with them. They get a curated database of every name, number, email address, street address, and photo from (I would guess) most users, and that data isn't even yours to deny access to. Sure, it's all publicly available info, but I don't want services I haven't signed up for having my info without my consent. I don't like that my friends and family can just give them access to all of that data without me being involved in any way.
- pixl97 3y ago
  At least they have to ask these days, before phones added more security they didn't bother with getting permission.
  - OfSanguineFire 3y ago
    On the other hand, apps like WhatsApp won’t work at all without access to the phone user’s contacts list, so asking for permission is a mere formality and Meta gets your information regardless.
    - autoexec 3y ago
      > On the other hand, apps like WhatsApp won’t work at all without access to the phone user’s contacts list, I don't think that's true. Users could be allowed to enter addresses individuality or ideally, when apps ask for permissions to a person's contacts phones could allow users to select what the app can and cannot see (only certain contacts, or phone numbers but not email addresses, etc) There are ways phones and apps could handle contact data while preserving privacy, but nobody is interested in helping people keep their data private. Phones are designed to leak your data like a sieve and apps are designed to collect every scrap of data they can get their hands on.
      - OfSanguineFire 3y ago
        I was speaking about how WhatsApp currently works. Not how WhatsApp could potentially work (and the functionality you suggest would almost certainly never be implemented unless Meta were compelled by law to do so).
- Anthony-G 3y ago
  I share your frustration. However, in my case, that kind of information is not on any publicly accessible database. Most friends, family and colleagues wouldn’t even know my address – some might know how to get to me as (house with a yellow door in the middle of the second street to the left, after the church …). Still, it annoys me that most people probably have my personal email address, phone number and real name tied together as a contact and provide this information to at least one online platform. Back when I used to use Google and Android, I would try to preserve my contacts’ privacy by storing their names using some mixture of first name, nicknames, initial for surname and context, e.g., “Alan F”, “Fid”¹, “Alan (football)“, “John (work)“. I’d also keep their number and email address as separate contacts — though that might only have worked in the early to mid 2000s. At some point, Google started getting too clever at determining which contacts could be “merged”. ¹ short for Fidelma
pixl97 3y ago
Do you think people don't copy every post off HN and feed it to AI? At some point things turn from you can avoid to they are ever present. Kind of like avoiding cameras and license plate readers, you going to lock yourself in a hole and avoid people?
- JohnMakin 3y ago
  completely unrelated to what’s being discussed. If I don’t want my fairly anonymous HN posts to be scraped I can avoid posting on HN. I cannot avoid every contact I have not using these services, unless I have no contacts. If whatever point you’re making is “who cares you can’t avoid it anyway,” that’s not only intellectually very lazy, it’s untrue - Lots of countries have regulated their way around these issues. The fact that one of the biggest producers of tech in the world (US) has this space fairly unregulated is not some excuse to capitulate to things that are fairly easy to regulate sensibly, if there is political will and knowledge. With uninformed takes like the parent I’m replying to still floating around out there, I guess it really is inevitable and unavoidable.

cooper_ganglia 3y ago

The most frustrating for me is social media apps constantly asking you to share your contacts with them. They get a curated database of every name, number, email address, street address, and photo from (I would guess) most users, and that data isn't even yours to deny access to. Sure, it's all publicly available info, but I don't want services I haven't signed up for having my info without my consent. I don't like that my friends and family can just give them access to all of that data without me being involved in any way.

pixl97 3y ago
At least they have to ask these days, before phones added more security they didn't bother with getting permission.
- OfSanguineFire 3y ago
  On the other hand, apps like WhatsApp won’t work at all without access to the phone user’s contacts list, so asking for permission is a mere formality and Meta gets your information regardless.
  - autoexec 3y ago
    > On the other hand, apps like WhatsApp won’t work at all without access to the phone user’s contacts list, I don't think that's true. Users could be allowed to enter addresses individuality or ideally, when apps ask for permissions to a person's contacts phones could allow users to select what the app can and cannot see (only certain contacts, or phone numbers but not email addresses, etc) There are ways phones and apps could handle contact data while preserving privacy, but nobody is interested in helping people keep their data private. Phones are designed to leak your data like a sieve and apps are designed to collect every scrap of data they can get their hands on.
    - OfSanguineFire 3y ago
      I was speaking about how WhatsApp currently works. Not how WhatsApp could potentially work (and the functionality you suggest would almost certainly never be implemented unless Meta were compelled by law to do so).
Anthony-G 3y ago
I share your frustration. However, in my case, that kind of information is not on any publicly accessible database. Most friends, family and colleagues wouldn’t even know my address – some might know how to get to me as (house with a yellow door in the middle of the second street to the left, after the church …). Still, it annoys me that most people probably have my personal email address, phone number and real name tied together as a contact and provide this information to at least one online platform. Back when I used to use Google and Android, I would try to preserve my contacts’ privacy by storing their names using some mixture of first name, nicknames, initial for surname and context, e.g., “Alan F”, “Fid”¹, “Alan (football)“, “John (work)“. I’d also keep their number and email address as separate contacts — though that might only have worked in the early to mid 2000s. At some point, Google started getting too clever at determining which contacts could be “merged”. ¹ short for Fidelma

pixl97 3y ago

Do you think people don't copy every post off HN and feed it to AI? At some point things turn from you can avoid to they are ever present. Kind of like avoiding cameras and license plate readers, you going to lock yourself in a hole and avoid people?

JohnMakin 3y ago
completely unrelated to what’s being discussed. If I don’t want my fairly anonymous HN posts to be scraped I can avoid posting on HN. I cannot avoid every contact I have not using these services, unless I have no contacts. If whatever point you’re making is “who cares you can’t avoid it anyway,” that’s not only intellectually very lazy, it’s untrue - Lots of countries have regulated their way around these issues. The fact that one of the biggest producers of tech in the world (US) has this space fairly unregulated is not some excuse to capitulate to things that are fairly easy to regulate sensibly, if there is political will and knowledge. With uninformed takes like the parent I’m replying to still floating around out there, I guess it really is inevitable and unavoidable.