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> we have so many bigger fish to fry! I can see that. Your roadmap makes sense to me. My [[wife|k0sh3k]] (without having seen your roadmap) picked out many of

by h0p3 3y ago

> we have so many bigger fish to fry! I can see that. Your roadmap makes sense to me. My [[wife|k0sh3k]] (without having seen your roadmap) picked out many of the same points as reasons she must wait to use it for her library staff. I appreciate how you must triage with the resources you have. Most of what I have to say isn't going to be as important to the non-poweruserbase you are trying to capture (and rightfully so!), so please take what I have to say with a grain of salt. You obviously know what you are doing. Reading through your account, I think you already know what I have to say here. > Would desktop-only i2p support be useful to you? Yes, and not just because I think it's important to contribute back to the network as a regular user. It would be especially nice with command-line tooling, and you can pickup UDP support. I've encountered plenty of failures on Tor (and you have too), and there are many I've encountered who I believe are rational in their desire not to be so reliant upon that network. I'd also be happy to use i2p on a mobile device just in case I had somewhat convenient control over when that occurred. If you provide logical accounts (where my decentralized identity can be wielded by multiple cooperating devices), then i2p becomes even better. Retroshare's use of both Tor and i2p have demonstrated the value of diversity here to my eyes as well. I'll add that something like multiplexing over multiple Tor or i2p tunnels could significantly improve throughput performance (a difficult place where you might be able deliver in some cases where no one has). However, I think your focus on mobile is more important (and I say that with a deep-seated grudge against phones). You serve the poorest on the planet by targeting mobile first. That isn't to say that you don't have any use for desktop users to assist on this network, but I can see why i2p, among many of my suggestions, should take a backseat. `/nod`. > It would be awesome to have a p2p github alternative that could ship builds over BitTorrent or IPFS I understand you've been around the block, so please ignore my gibberish. To my eyes, you're also building a serious competitor to [[P2P Matrix|2021.11.17 - HN Log: Arathorn & P2P Matrix]], which is still under development. I'll mention that Radicle may be worth your consideration. The functionality of [[DarkMX]] is worth your time as well (it is closed source, but its creator is one of the few with the right to ask us to trust him [even if I stand in disagreement]). I know some, like [[Ian Clarke]], will claim it is better not to "focus too much on competitors, better to focus on the needs of users," however, given the specialization of this tool, I think there's something to be said for having tasted the alternatives. [[Aether]] may be a direction you could eventually go, but I understand that isn't your immediate target; I don't know if protocol design decisions now might affect the future of such a thing. > Beyond participating in Tor, Quiet does not allow you to help any network you're not a member of `/nod`. I wonder if it is feasible for Quiet to have something like the Encrypted Key option in Resilio Sync, enabling one to seed in swarms without knowing the contents. There are some cases where it's useful, though there are tradeoffs. There may come a time where you've decentralized to the point where it hurts too much, and you'll have to centralize until it works. I wonder if there are cases in which randos must hold at least metadata for others or act as proxies (I understand that Tor solves many problems for you). [[Tox|Toxcore]] is an exemplary tool in part of this space you're solving, and even they haven't solved some of these problems. Seamless multidevice and offline messaging are dealbreakers for many people. > If you have access to a large number of machines, rigorous performance testing with hundreds of nodes could possibly be helpful?... manual and automated testing on many diverse Android devices; that would be helpful! I'll be thinking about that then. NixOS with solid orchestration on a beefy machine (I'm not sure if zswap would assist here, but memory seems a serious bottleneck) may be able to push hard. There's probably no way around using a lot of machines unless a much thinner client were feasible. The nice part is that donations might allow you to control the machines remotely while dogfooding.

h0p3 3y ago
> Know anyone? My family tests this type of software often enough. I know my daughter, [[j3d1h]], desperately hopes for a secure replacement to Discord for her [[friend]] groups. She's sitting on the couch with me right now writing up what she's missing most in your software. Here is what she said: ``` just my opinion, man -how are profiles going to work? do you have an individual username for each community, or will your profile eventually be the same across all the communities you're in? -profiles you can customize to servers *can be* useful, so long as you can still trace them back to the user's actual profile. otherwise that might enable masquerading as other users -users able to mark as invisible (appearing offline without actually being so)? good to have in many situations imo, obscuring information from people who may be a danger to you -how is name collision handled? in a large community, you're bound to have a few people who want the same name (and i get it, your screen name can be very personal) -discord's old solution, a username and 4 digit id (e.g. felix#1234), seemed convenient and effective to me, but there must be tons of solutions; i like having a way to easily distinguish two users with the same screen name -personally blocking users you are uncomfortable interacting with, kicking users from communities vs. banning repeat offenders in a more permanent way, temporarily muting a spamming user? -kicking vs. banning can be an important distinction; i'd rather kick you if you're just inactive all the time, you're free to rejoin whenever you like -i like keeping it very, very clear what does (or does not) happen when you block, kick, ban, etc; a user shouldn't have to "test" features like these -important to keep in mind that you rarely (or never) want a user to completely disappear; i always want to leave the option to get back in touch, unban, unmute, etc. -a friends system is useful for this; maybe i don't want anyone i haven't marked as a friend to DM me -selectively muting different portions of the app (e.g. i *only* want to be notified of a DM or @ mention, or *only* notifications from *this* community, or no notifications from this channel except @ mentions) -what if i want to be notified whenever this phrase pops up in a community? might be a question of how easily you can build your own scripts *on top of* Quiet (which i would quite like to do) -are voice and/or video planned, both in communities as well as dms? -muting + deafening + turning off camera, nothing in a voice/video chat should be mandatory (owners shouldn't be able to *un*mute someone, but owners muting others can be useful) -maybe i want to mute that user, but allow everyone else to hear them? turn this one up and that one down on my end? -audio controls that make sense. if there's a layer of noise cancellation, leave the option to turn it off in case it messes with your audio, etc. -taking microphone input as it is works just fine, though i can see some users disliking that (mostly people who don't know how/can't modify their settings *outside* of Quiet) -i've seen many communities in other applications where multiple "owners" existed, as it can make a more safe/welcoming community -if one owner in any way becomes untrustworthy, having someone with equal permissions in place to get rid of them and undo damage can help; whether they can remove each other or not seems like an important decision -question about the threat model; members are not capable of sending messages that appear to be from another member, which implies that owners *are* capable of this? that could become a serious issue if true -user discovery outside of communities, preferably just typing in a username they send you elsewhere? -will it be possible to delete an entire community? can an owner do this in situations where members don't agree? -searching channels (and more advanced searches; sent by this user, with an image attached, in this channel; hopefully accessible to users even if they can't do regex on the fly, lol) -i've found it frustrating not to be able to search every community i'm in at once for something i said; is that feasible? -any distinction between a community and a DM with 3+ users in it? -i don't personally see the point, but some apps have this nitpicky, visual polish, further off details -dark mode, and in my opinion, ideally a way to customize everything more thoroughly -if thorough customization, maybe a way to save/export those settings to share? -maybe the ability to see separate messages sent in a row - is that a message in 3 lines, or 3 messages? just hovering and seeing one line highlighted (and the timestamp for just that line)? -embedding video and audio files in a convenient manner? -replying to messages, pinning them to channels (so they can be easily found again) seem very useful -channel organization and categories; i don't always want the art channels open, i want #announcements at the top, etc. -messages marked as read/unread can be useful, something to carefully think about -sometimes i like knowing that someone has read my message; sometimes i like the safety that comes with people *not* being able to know. if i had to pick, it'd be the latter, users can always prove they have read something by responding to it -client side unread; i'd like to pick up from the last message i read in this channel -having channels visually marked that there are unread messages is nice -keyboard navigation beyond pressing tab is super useful; a screen you can reach to describe these shortcuts is equally so ```

by h0p3 3y ago

h0p3 3y ago

> Know anyone? My family tests this type of software often enough. I know my daughter, [[j3d1h]], desperately hopes for a secure replacement to Discord for her [[friend]] groups. She's sitting on the couch with me right now writing up what she's missing most in your software. Here is what she said: ``` just my opinion, man -how are profiles going to work? do you have an individual username for each community, or will your profile eventually be the same across all the communities you're in? -profiles you can customize to servers *can be* useful, so long as you can still trace them back to the user's actual profile. otherwise that might enable masquerading as other users -users able to mark as invisible (appearing offline without actually being so)? good to have in many situations imo, obscuring information from people who may be a danger to you -how is name collision handled? in a large community, you're bound to have a few people who want the same name (and i get it, your screen name can be very personal) -discord's old solution, a username and 4 digit id (e.g. felix#1234), seemed convenient and effective to me, but there must be tons of solutions; i like having a way to easily distinguish two users with the same screen name -personally blocking users you are uncomfortable interacting with, kicking users from communities vs. banning repeat offenders in a more permanent way, temporarily muting a spamming user? -kicking vs. banning can be an important distinction; i'd rather kick you if you're just inactive all the time, you're free to rejoin whenever you like -i like keeping it very, very clear what does (or does not) happen when you block, kick, ban, etc; a user shouldn't have to "test" features like these -important to keep in mind that you rarely (or never) want a user to completely disappear; i always want to leave the option to get back in touch, unban, unmute, etc. -a friends system is useful for this; maybe i don't want anyone i haven't marked as a friend to DM me -selectively muting different portions of the app (e.g. i *only* want to be notified of a DM or @ mention, or *only* notifications from *this* community, or no notifications from this channel except @ mentions) -what if i want to be notified whenever this phrase pops up in a community? might be a question of how easily you can build your own scripts *on top of* Quiet (which i would quite like to do) -are voice and/or video planned, both in communities as well as dms? -muting + deafening + turning off camera, nothing in a voice/video chat should be mandatory (owners shouldn't be able to *un*mute someone, but owners muting others can be useful) -maybe i want to mute that user, but allow everyone else to hear them? turn this one up and that one down on my end? -audio controls that make sense. if there's a layer of noise cancellation, leave the option to turn it off in case it messes with your audio, etc. -taking microphone input as it is works just fine, though i can see some users disliking that (mostly people who don't know how/can't modify their settings *outside* of Quiet) -i've seen many communities in other applications where multiple "owners" existed, as it can make a more safe/welcoming community -if one owner in any way becomes untrustworthy, having someone with equal permissions in place to get rid of them and undo damage can help; whether they can remove each other or not seems like an important decision -question about the threat model; members are not capable of sending messages that appear to be from another member, which implies that owners *are* capable of this? that could become a serious issue if true -user discovery outside of communities, preferably just typing in a username they send you elsewhere? -will it be possible to delete an entire community? can an owner do this in situations where members don't agree? -searching channels (and more advanced searches; sent by this user, with an image attached, in this channel; hopefully accessible to users even if they can't do regex on the fly, lol) -i've found it frustrating not to be able to search every community i'm in at once for something i said; is that feasible? -any distinction between a community and a DM with 3+ users in it? -i don't personally see the point, but some apps have this nitpicky, visual polish, further off details -dark mode, and in my opinion, ideally a way to customize everything more thoroughly -if thorough customization, maybe a way to save/export those settings to share? -maybe the ability to see separate messages sent in a row - is that a message in 3 lines, or 3 messages? just hovering and seeing one line highlighted (and the timestamp for just that line)? -embedding video and audio files in a convenient manner? -replying to messages, pinning them to channels (so they can be easily found again) seem very useful -channel organization and categories; i don't always want the art channels open, i want #announcements at the top, etc. -messages marked as read/unread can be useful, something to carefully think about -sometimes i like knowing that someone has read my message; sometimes i like the safety that comes with people *not* being able to know. if i had to pick, it'd be the latter, users can always prove they have read something by responding to it -client side unread; i'd like to pick up from the last message i read in this channel -having channels visually marked that there are unread messages is nice -keyboard navigation beyond pressing tab is super useful; a screen you can reach to describe these shortcuts is equally so ```