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And the Tesla plaid is the fastest nurburgring sedan ever made. Go ahead, say that's not a sports car.

decafninja 3y ago
If Nurburgring times are all we’re looking at, there are SUVs (ok, CUVs) that will destroy the times of “real sports cars”.
timc3 3y ago
Its not a sports car. Besides, BMW M4 CSL, Jaguar XE project 8, BMW M3, Mercedes AMG 63 GT have faster lap times.
- AtlasBarfed 3y ago
  Fine. At the time when it ran that time it was the fastest, and faster than practically every sports car ever made. The nurburgring is about the most sports car track ever made. I don't really know how to measure anything about a car's sportiness other than its speed around the track generally agreed to be the most "Gran Turismo" style. If you want your own personal gatekeeping standards for "true sports car", whatever. When batteries double in density in the next ten years, your gatekeeping will look even more ridiculous. The ICE drivetrain is a zombie at this point that is surviving on inertia and the incompetence of legacy automakers.
  - wherefour 3y ago
    > Fine. At the time when it ran that time it was the fastest, See here: https://www.hotcars.com/fastest-sedans-around-the-nurburgring/#2019-mercedes-amg-gt-63-s---7-25-41 https://www.hotcars.com/fastest-sedans-around-the-nurburgrin... And join with the list here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_N%C3%BCrburgring_Nordschleife_lap_times#Lap_times https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_N%C3%BCrburgring_Nords... All five sedans that beat the Model S around the Nürburgring drove their laps earlier. The Plaid has only ever been the sixth fastest sedan around the 'ring. Which is excellent, but not what you said. >and faster than practically every sports car ever made. It isn't. It loses even to the 2012 Nissan GT-R or 2007 911 GT2. It loses to any of the faster 911s by nearly a minute. It is faster than some sports cars, but not recent sports cars at a similar price. How is it that the Plaid, despite being one of the fastest cars on the road in a straight line, loses quite badly to cars with half the power? Because there is much more to performance than just acceleration. The cars you disparage are dramatically better in the corners than the Plaid. >The nurburgring is about the most sports car track ever made. I don't quite know what this means, but I don't think it's true. The use of the 'ring as a benchmark is often criticized because it rewards power over handling. A track that specifically tests handling would be slower and twistier. This is not sour grapes; people have been saying this for decades.
    - tsunamifury 3y ago
      [flagged]
    - AtlasBarfed 3y ago
      Hm I think you're right. I must have been thinking of Laguna Seca. Of course, I'm assuming THAT isn't a "real sports car course" either.
      - wherefour 3y ago
        People race motorcycles at Laguna Seca. Several of them are faster than the Plaid. Are they sports cars too?
adfiognionio 3y ago
You just said it's not a sports car. It's a sedan. No one would dispute that it's a performance car. No one would dispute that it's very fast. But none of that matters here, because it weighs 5,000 lbs and has four doors. A Spitfire is not a muscle car, a Camaro is not a superbike, a 917 is not a performance sedan, and a Plaid is not a sports car. You can, of course, use the word however you want. Words change meaning over time. But if you want to claim that sports car enthusiasts have moved the goal posts, you need to know where they were set in the first place. I am using the word in roughly the same way enthusiasts have always used it, and you are not. Also, the Tesla Plaid is not the fastest sedan on the Nurburgring. It is the sixth fastest. Note that the top five times were set before Tesla's run. https://www.hotcars.com/fastest-sedans-around-the-nurburgring/ https://www.hotcars.com/fastest-sedans-around-the-nurburgrin...

If Nurburgring times are all we’re looking at, there are SUVs (ok, CUVs) that will destroy the times of “real sports cars”.

timc3 3y ago

Its not a sports car. Besides, BMW M4 CSL, Jaguar XE project 8, BMW M3, Mercedes AMG 63 GT have faster lap times.

AtlasBarfed 3y ago
Fine. At the time when it ran that time it was the fastest, and faster than practically every sports car ever made. The nurburgring is about the most sports car track ever made. I don't really know how to measure anything about a car's sportiness other than its speed around the track generally agreed to be the most "Gran Turismo" style. If you want your own personal gatekeeping standards for "true sports car", whatever. When batteries double in density in the next ten years, your gatekeeping will look even more ridiculous. The ICE drivetrain is a zombie at this point that is surviving on inertia and the incompetence of legacy automakers.
- wherefour 3y ago
  > Fine. At the time when it ran that time it was the fastest, See here: https://www.hotcars.com/fastest-sedans-around-the-nurburgring/#2019-mercedes-amg-gt-63-s---7-25-41 https://www.hotcars.com/fastest-sedans-around-the-nurburgrin... And join with the list here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_N%C3%BCrburgring_Nordschleife_lap_times#Lap_times https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_N%C3%BCrburgring_Nords... All five sedans that beat the Model S around the Nürburgring drove their laps earlier. The Plaid has only ever been the sixth fastest sedan around the 'ring. Which is excellent, but not what you said. >and faster than practically every sports car ever made. It isn't. It loses even to the 2012 Nissan GT-R or 2007 911 GT2. It loses to any of the faster 911s by nearly a minute. It is faster than some sports cars, but not recent sports cars at a similar price. How is it that the Plaid, despite being one of the fastest cars on the road in a straight line, loses quite badly to cars with half the power? Because there is much more to performance than just acceleration. The cars you disparage are dramatically better in the corners than the Plaid. >The nurburgring is about the most sports car track ever made. I don't quite know what this means, but I don't think it's true. The use of the 'ring as a benchmark is often criticized because it rewards power over handling. A track that specifically tests handling would be slower and twistier. This is not sour grapes; people have been saying this for decades.
  - tsunamifury 3y ago
    [flagged]
  - AtlasBarfed 3y ago
    Hm I think you're right. I must have been thinking of Laguna Seca. Of course, I'm assuming THAT isn't a "real sports car course" either.
    - wherefour 3y ago
      People race motorcycles at Laguna Seca. Several of them are faster than the Plaid. Are they sports cars too?

adfiognionio 3y ago

You just said it's not a sports car. It's a sedan. No one would dispute that it's a performance car. No one would dispute that it's very fast. But none of that matters here, because it weighs 5,000 lbs and has four doors. A Spitfire is not a muscle car, a Camaro is not a superbike, a 917 is not a performance sedan, and a Plaid is not a sports car. You can, of course, use the word however you want. Words change meaning over time. But if you want to claim that sports car enthusiasts have moved the goal posts, you need to know where they were set in the first place. I am using the word in roughly the same way enthusiasts have always used it, and you are not. Also, the Tesla Plaid is not the fastest sedan on the Nurburgring. It is the sixth fastest. Note that the top five times were set before Tesla's run. https://www.hotcars.com/fastest-sedans-around-the-nurburgring/ https://www.hotcars.com/fastest-sedans-around-the-nurburgrin...