5 ms·

I will politely express dissent, if that is ok. Not to be a grinch about it, because other people using it does me no harm. It's hard to even formulate exactly

I will politely express dissent, if that is ok. Not to be a grinch about it, because other people using it does me no harm. It's hard to even formulate exactly why the whole !Achievements! thing in gaming rubs me the wrong way. I guess it's a mix of several factors, centred around arguably picky purism (e.g. 'a games designed balance includes the inbuilt reward system'), and also around a worldview preference for (some) humility in life, which is somewhat an antithesis of constantly-blaring "Wow! You Just Did This! Congratulations!" messaging/reassurance - a thing I don't put great value upon, in my worldview. Not in that outward manner, at least. I hope I've at least partially explained my dissenting viewpoint. As I said, this existing does me no harm as such, and I have no beef with it at all, except in personal preference, and insofar as casual discussion has filled these spare moments.

pests 3y ago
It rubs me the wrong way too. Battlepass rewards as well. I have a friend who will play for many hours a game he does not like - just to get the achievement points or some cosmetic that is limited time.
- glimshe 3y ago
  What you need to realize is that the "game he does not like" isn't the game - the achievement is the game your friend is actually playing.
  - thaumasiotes 3y ago
    > the achievement is the game your friend is actually playing. You can win that argument, sure. But you failed to demonstrate that the friend enjoys that game either.
TheFreim 3y ago
I would have mostly disagreed, but after reading the following comment in this thread I think you have a point (emphasis added): > This looks like a fun project to give some more /incentives to playing older games/. I don't have an issue with achievements when they're built on top of a game that doesn't need them to be fun, but when they're added to try to "incentive" a game then maybe you should be playing an intrinsically fun game instead? Sometimes its okay to complete a game and not need to be "incentivized" to play it again.
- YurgenJurgensen 3y ago
  Surely even the notion of 'completion' is the same kind of extrinsic motivation? If the game is intrinsically fun, why have a score, or an end screen, or a fail state?
  - thaumasiotes 3y ago
    > If the game is intrinsically fun, why have a score, or an end screen, or a fail state? The end screens stick around because people really do want them. But it's very common for people to enjoy games without ever seeing an end screen. The other two examples tend to undermine your point. Fail states have been methodically stripped from games because people hate them. Scores are more neutral; nobody cares one way or the other. But they're disappearing too. (Mostly they've already disappeared.) You have a score in Super Mario Brothers because arcade games have scores. Arcade games have scores that people care about because the machine displays a high score list that other people will see. But nobody has ever cared about score in Super Mario Brothers - there is no high score list, and if there was one it wouldn't matter because the machine is in your home. There are "scores" in King's Quest and Return to Zork that track your completion of the game (including optional parts). That is the same function that achievements serve today, except that achievements do it better by allowing you to tell which ones you've completed. Which of three optional two-point events you completed in King's Quest is information you can't extract from a score of "perfect minus four".
lapetitejort 3y ago
The best achievements to me act as hints on how to play the game in a certain way. Such as: * "Find all 25 widgets" I like finding widgets and I've only found 12 of them. I'll keep looking! * "Beat the game without using System X" Whoa, I thought System X was required! I'll figure out how to rely on the other systems to work around missing this one * "Get ending #3" I hear that ending is neat so I'll play again making different choices Achievements don't help mediocre games improve, they only compliment already good games. They also act as remembrances of games long past, something I can look up in a few minutes without having to install the game or hunt for a save file. Getting all of those achievements ten years ago must have really meant that I liked it.
Waterluvian 3y ago
I love achievements because when crafted well, they give me a bunch of artificial challenges to strive for. To be honest, I’m actually not sure I understand the “I get gaming but I don’t get achievements.” Achievements are just another scoring system.
thaumasiotes 3y ago
This is a good commentary on one way achievements can hurt a game: https://www.darklegacycomics.com/416 https://www.darklegacycomics.com/416
forgotusername6 3y ago
They break the fourth wall for me. I'm in the middle of some tense situation and some annoying popup appears to remind me that none of this is real. Thanks.
noobermin 3y ago
You're not alone, this is another reason I like old games as well as the platforms without achievements like the switch, because they generally avoid this or at least it can be hidden. I honestly don't like this project at all and its existence is another reason I will only sparingly share my love for old games with people because I know many people do it for reasons other than enjoyment...it is quickly becoming a "niche" and a "scene" which I hate. I won't rail against its existence, I'm similar to you. As long as these people stay in their lane it doesn't affect me. People pumping their game stocks is an issue as it makes old games even more inaccessible but that's somewhat downstream from projects like this.

pests 3y ago

It rubs me the wrong way too. Battlepass rewards as well. I have a friend who will play for many hours a game he does not like - just to get the achievement points or some cosmetic that is limited time.

glimshe 3y ago
What you need to realize is that the "game he does not like" isn't the game - the achievement is the game your friend is actually playing.
- thaumasiotes 3y ago
  > the achievement is the game your friend is actually playing. You can win that argument, sure. But you failed to demonstrate that the friend enjoys that game either.

TheFreim 3y ago

I would have mostly disagreed, but after reading the following comment in this thread I think you have a point (emphasis added): > This looks like a fun project to give some more /incentives to playing older games/. I don't have an issue with achievements when they're built on top of a game that doesn't need them to be fun, but when they're added to try to "incentive" a game then maybe you should be playing an intrinsically fun game instead? Sometimes its okay to complete a game and not need to be "incentivized" to play it again.

YurgenJurgensen 3y ago
Surely even the notion of 'completion' is the same kind of extrinsic motivation? If the game is intrinsically fun, why have a score, or an end screen, or a fail state?
- thaumasiotes 3y ago
  > If the game is intrinsically fun, why have a score, or an end screen, or a fail state? The end screens stick around because people really do want them. But it's very common for people to enjoy games without ever seeing an end screen. The other two examples tend to undermine your point. Fail states have been methodically stripped from games because people hate them. Scores are more neutral; nobody cares one way or the other. But they're disappearing too. (Mostly they've already disappeared.) You have a score in Super Mario Brothers because arcade games have scores. Arcade games have scores that people care about because the machine displays a high score list that other people will see. But nobody has ever cared about score in Super Mario Brothers - there is no high score list, and if there was one it wouldn't matter because the machine is in your home. There are "scores" in King's Quest and Return to Zork that track your completion of the game (including optional parts). That is the same function that achievements serve today, except that achievements do it better by allowing you to tell which ones you've completed. Which of three optional two-point events you completed in King's Quest is information you can't extract from a score of "perfect minus four".

lapetitejort 3y ago

The best achievements to me act as hints on how to play the game in a certain way. Such as: * "Find all 25 widgets" I like finding widgets and I've only found 12 of them. I'll keep looking! * "Beat the game without using System X" Whoa, I thought System X was required! I'll figure out how to rely on the other systems to work around missing this one * "Get ending #3" I hear that ending is neat so I'll play again making different choices Achievements don't help mediocre games improve, they only compliment already good games. They also act as remembrances of games long past, something I can look up in a few minutes without having to install the game or hunt for a save file. Getting all of those achievements ten years ago must have really meant that I liked it.

Waterluvian 3y ago

I love achievements because when crafted well, they give me a bunch of artificial challenges to strive for. To be honest, I’m actually not sure I understand the “I get gaming but I don’t get achievements.” Achievements are just another scoring system.

thaumasiotes 3y ago

This is a good commentary on one way achievements can hurt a game: https://www.darklegacycomics.com/416 https://www.darklegacycomics.com/416

forgotusername6 3y ago

They break the fourth wall for me. I'm in the middle of some tense situation and some annoying popup appears to remind me that none of this is real. Thanks.

noobermin 3y ago

You're not alone, this is another reason I like old games as well as the platforms without achievements like the switch, because they generally avoid this or at least it can be hidden. I honestly don't like this project at all and its existence is another reason I will only sparingly share my love for old games with people because I know many people do it for reasons other than enjoyment...it is quickly becoming a "niche" and a "scene" which I hate. I won't rail against its existence, I'm similar to you. As long as these people stay in their lane it doesn't affect me. People pumping their game stocks is an issue as it makes old games even more inaccessible but that's somewhat downstream from projects like this.