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I'm curious about people's take on leather from a sustainability, climate, and a morality (animal product) point of views. On one hand, cattle production is no

I'm curious about people's take on leather from a sustainability, climate, and a morality (animal product) point of views. On one hand, cattle production is not great on the above points. On the other hand, I heard that leather is a by-product of the meat industry - i.e. the cattle would be raised either way.

yazaddaruvala 3y ago
> On the other hand, I heard that leather is a by-product of the meat industry - i.e. the cattle would be raised either way. Sure, but still seem worth it! Right now the by-product generates additional profit per animal. If we all stop using leather, the by-product becomes a liability and they need to do something else with it that costs them money. All of this means to retain their initial profit per animal, the cost is transferred to the meat consumer. Which in turn might help drive sustainability through lower meat consumption.
- vages 3y ago
  You actually changed my opinion in this.
- jjtheblunt 3y ago
  ditto : well said, opinion changed. and thank you.
kstrauser 3y ago
Here's my take on Apple's leather goods from a purely practical, selfish point of view: I've been using their leather cases for years. I think the newer versions are lower quality than the old ones. I wouldn't buy another one now even if they kept making them. All of the good reasons you mentioned aside, if Apple's not going to make their leather goods top-quality, then it's better to drop the line altogether.
- garblegarble 3y ago
  Exactly this - I think leathergoods are worthwhile because they last (and quality leather should last a very long time - and in that time you'll have run through several plastic versions of the product, and shed a vast amount of microplastics into the environment in the process) but Apple's simply don't anymore. Their leather loop watch bands were a key example - they laminated very thin layers of leather together with other materials, and the resulting product just fell apart after a year's use.
  - kstrauser 3y ago
    I agree. I've had a leather jacket for 20+ years. I have leather boots that I keep clean and re-sole every now and then. I wore a pair of leather Birkenstocks through several sets of soles until the cork bed literally fell apart. I understand the animal rights perspective here. The eco perspective is that with a little care you can make leather goods last a very long time.
jpalomaki 3y ago
The process of turning the animal skin into usable leather orobably has environmental effects as well. Likely lots of water is needed and chemicals.
FooBarBizBazz 3y ago
They're doing it because they can market pleather as "vegan leather" now for the same price as real leather, and it's simpler to standardize on that. It's polyurethane or PVC. The good thing about it is that it doesn't require raising and killing an animal. Bad things include that it's made from petrochemicals and does not biodegrade. Doesn't seem like a clear win for ecology.
porkbeer 3y ago
Leather is worth it for longer life products. The fact that this is discussed over the outsized pollution the device itswlf generates just shows how out of touch consumers are with their actual environmental effect.

yazaddaruvala 3y ago

> On the other hand, I heard that leather is a by-product of the meat industry - i.e. the cattle would be raised either way. Sure, but still seem worth it! Right now the by-product generates additional profit per animal. If we all stop using leather, the by-product becomes a liability and they need to do something else with it that costs them money. All of this means to retain their initial profit per animal, the cost is transferred to the meat consumer. Which in turn might help drive sustainability through lower meat consumption.

vages 3y ago
You actually changed my opinion in this.
jjtheblunt 3y ago
ditto : well said, opinion changed. and thank you.

kstrauser 3y ago

Here's my take on Apple's leather goods from a purely practical, selfish point of view: I've been using their leather cases for years. I think the newer versions are lower quality than the old ones. I wouldn't buy another one now even if they kept making them. All of the good reasons you mentioned aside, if Apple's not going to make their leather goods top-quality, then it's better to drop the line altogether.

garblegarble 3y ago
Exactly this - I think leathergoods are worthwhile because they last (and quality leather should last a very long time - and in that time you'll have run through several plastic versions of the product, and shed a vast amount of microplastics into the environment in the process) but Apple's simply don't anymore. Their leather loop watch bands were a key example - they laminated very thin layers of leather together with other materials, and the resulting product just fell apart after a year's use.
- kstrauser 3y ago
  I agree. I've had a leather jacket for 20+ years. I have leather boots that I keep clean and re-sole every now and then. I wore a pair of leather Birkenstocks through several sets of soles until the cork bed literally fell apart. I understand the animal rights perspective here. The eco perspective is that with a little care you can make leather goods last a very long time.

jpalomaki 3y ago

The process of turning the animal skin into usable leather orobably has environmental effects as well. Likely lots of water is needed and chemicals.

FooBarBizBazz 3y ago

They're doing it because they can market pleather as "vegan leather" now for the same price as real leather, and it's simpler to standardize on that. It's polyurethane or PVC. The good thing about it is that it doesn't require raising and killing an animal. Bad things include that it's made from petrochemicals and does not biodegrade. Doesn't seem like a clear win for ecology.

porkbeer 3y ago

Leather is worth it for longer life products. The fact that this is discussed over the outsized pollution the device itswlf generates just shows how out of touch consumers are with their actual environmental effect.