4 ms·

> The promise of gaming on iPhone (and mobile gaming in general) has been taken over and destroyed by freemium games whose only goal is to push microtransaction

> The promise of gaming on iPhone (and mobile gaming in general) has been taken over and destroyed by freemium games whose only goal is to push microtransactions. Wasn't that a reaction to users who refused to pay for games and just sideloaded them instead? I can remember there being five dollar games in the early days of iOS that sold well. I can also remember developers trying games that had ads until you paid to remove them.

albedoa 3y ago
> Wasn't that a reaction to users who refused to pay for games and just sideloaded them instead? No. That was a minuscule number of people. It was a reaction to Candy Crush making insane amounts of money using casino mechanics.
- GeekyBear 3y ago
  > No. That was a minuscule number of people. I can certainly remember developers of early popular games that you paid for up front saying that they tracked how many copies of their game were out there, and only a minuscule percentage of those games had been paid for,
  - lawlessone 3y ago
    It's far easier to pirate on PC yet we have plenty of non freemium games. And hardest to pirate games on iOS yet theres a glut of freemium games. On Android you'd still have to explicitly enable side loading I don't think piracy is the issue here, the issue is on mobile devices you already have quick payments setup for very fast transactions through the app stores. It's easier to assume to assume the person using the phone authorized to make the transaction and enable lots of small transactions. On PC it's much easier to enter my card details for each new transaction, so i never save the card in Steam etc. Doing the same on the phone is tiring, so i have my card saved. Apple and Google also make a little money on these transactions and have less incentive to promote non freemium games.
michaelt 3y ago
> Wasn't that a reaction to users who refused to pay for games and just sideloaded them instead? My impression at the time was that the supply of games in the app store was just too great, with hundreds of casual games being released every day. Thus driving down prices. And Apple was more than happy to commoditise their complement; if 20 developers decided to clone Flappy Bird that was fine with Apple.
- GeekyBear 3y ago
  I'm talking about early standouts, not also rans. I think 2010's Infinity Blade pulled in two million dollars the first week, back when the user base of the devices were comparatively tiny. People were willing to pay up front on iOS, but Android users just sideloaded, leading to Skinner box free-to-play games being the most reliable way to monetize.
  - smoldesu 3y ago
    Seems like an odd scapegoat. Apple themselves was promoting the iPhone with gachapon games earlier today, it's not like lootbox titles magically disappeared with good DRM. If anything, overly-strong DRM enforcement reinforces the power that lootbox-style games have over the user. It gives the developer more control over the runtime than the end-user, encouraging developers to extort the user however they can. Sideloading makes piracy a service problem instead of a freedom one, and Apple knows their service can't compete on an unstacked deck.
    - GeekyBear 3y ago
      > Seems like an odd scapegoat. Only if you expect developers and/or studios to work for no pay. Why do you think we live in a world where you need an internet connection to play a single player game? Developers need a way to be sure you've paid up.
      - Karunamon 3y ago
        Because data collection and upselling, and because advertising. Blaming the tiny minority of people who pirate for the enshittification plaguing basically all software right now is a poor excuse. Show me the numbers.
paxys 3y ago
If piracy was really that big a problem then the entire PC gaming industry wouldn't exist. The issue really was that microtransactions were too easy on mobile, and freemium/casino-like games were simply making too much money, so no developer had the incentive to make anything else.
- GeekyBear 3y ago
  > If piracy was really that big a problem then the entire PC gaming industry wouldn't exist. Ever hear of DRM? How about consoles that brick themselves if they detect that they've been modified?
  - setr 3y ago
    Isn’t iOS already one big DRM? Probably much more effective versus piracy than something like Denuvo as well. And anyways we’ve already come to expect DRM to for any reasonably popular game to be cracked in short order. In which case, we’d still expect PCs to be in an equivalent, if not worse state.
- com2kid 3y ago
  Steam, Steam sales, and constantly updated games were the fixes to piracy. If a game gets content updates every other month, re-downloading a pirated game, and possibly losing all progress, meh. If a game is going to go on sale for $20 (or $10) after awhile, why bother pirating it, just wait. And Steam is absurdly convenient. Built in voice chat, collectables, and forums, means playing games on Steam is better than playing pirated games.
  - GeekyBear 3y ago
    > Steam, Steam sales, and constantly updated games were the fixes to piracy. Steam is a DRM platform.
    - crooked-v 3y ago
      There are plenty of games on Steam with no DRM at all, including Valve's own Half-Life and Portal games.

albedoa 3y ago

> Wasn't that a reaction to users who refused to pay for games and just sideloaded them instead? No. That was a minuscule number of people. It was a reaction to Candy Crush making insane amounts of money using casino mechanics.

GeekyBear 3y ago
> No. That was a minuscule number of people. I can certainly remember developers of early popular games that you paid for up front saying that they tracked how many copies of their game were out there, and only a minuscule percentage of those games had been paid for,
- lawlessone 3y ago
  It's far easier to pirate on PC yet we have plenty of non freemium games. And hardest to pirate games on iOS yet theres a glut of freemium games. On Android you'd still have to explicitly enable side loading I don't think piracy is the issue here, the issue is on mobile devices you already have quick payments setup for very fast transactions through the app stores. It's easier to assume to assume the person using the phone authorized to make the transaction and enable lots of small transactions. On PC it's much easier to enter my card details for each new transaction, so i never save the card in Steam etc. Doing the same on the phone is tiring, so i have my card saved. Apple and Google also make a little money on these transactions and have less incentive to promote non freemium games.

michaelt 3y ago

> Wasn't that a reaction to users who refused to pay for games and just sideloaded them instead? My impression at the time was that the supply of games in the app store was just too great, with hundreds of casual games being released every day. Thus driving down prices. And Apple was more than happy to commoditise their complement; if 20 developers decided to clone Flappy Bird that was fine with Apple.

GeekyBear 3y ago
I'm talking about early standouts, not also rans. I think 2010's Infinity Blade pulled in two million dollars the first week, back when the user base of the devices were comparatively tiny. People were willing to pay up front on iOS, but Android users just sideloaded, leading to Skinner box free-to-play games being the most reliable way to monetize.
- smoldesu 3y ago
  Seems like an odd scapegoat. Apple themselves was promoting the iPhone with gachapon games earlier today, it's not like lootbox titles magically disappeared with good DRM. If anything, overly-strong DRM enforcement reinforces the power that lootbox-style games have over the user. It gives the developer more control over the runtime than the end-user, encouraging developers to extort the user however they can. Sideloading makes piracy a service problem instead of a freedom one, and Apple knows their service can't compete on an unstacked deck.
  - GeekyBear 3y ago
    > Seems like an odd scapegoat. Only if you expect developers and/or studios to work for no pay. Why do you think we live in a world where you need an internet connection to play a single player game? Developers need a way to be sure you've paid up.
    - Karunamon 3y ago
      Because data collection and upselling, and because advertising. Blaming the tiny minority of people who pirate for the enshittification plaguing basically all software right now is a poor excuse. Show me the numbers.

paxys 3y ago

If piracy was really that big a problem then the entire PC gaming industry wouldn't exist. The issue really was that microtransactions were too easy on mobile, and freemium/casino-like games were simply making too much money, so no developer had the incentive to make anything else.

GeekyBear 3y ago
> If piracy was really that big a problem then the entire PC gaming industry wouldn't exist. Ever hear of DRM? How about consoles that brick themselves if they detect that they've been modified?
- setr 3y ago
  Isn’t iOS already one big DRM? Probably much more effective versus piracy than something like Denuvo as well. And anyways we’ve already come to expect DRM to for any reasonably popular game to be cracked in short order. In which case, we’d still expect PCs to be in an equivalent, if not worse state.
com2kid 3y ago
Steam, Steam sales, and constantly updated games were the fixes to piracy. If a game gets content updates every other month, re-downloading a pirated game, and possibly losing all progress, meh. If a game is going to go on sale for $20 (or $10) after awhile, why bother pirating it, just wait. And Steam is absurdly convenient. Built in voice chat, collectables, and forums, means playing games on Steam is better than playing pirated games.
- GeekyBear 3y ago
  > Steam, Steam sales, and constantly updated games were the fixes to piracy. Steam is a DRM platform.
  - crooked-v 3y ago
    There are plenty of games on Steam with no DRM at all, including Valve's own Half-Life and Portal games.