4 ms·

Sounds like the A16 just doesn't have the I/O block for USB 3. They are using the chip from the last generation for the base model. Though to put this in a rea

Sounds like the A16 just doesn't have the I/O block for USB 3. They are using the chip from the last generation for the base model. Though to put this in a realistic context, I am curious what percentage of iPhones have ever, over their usage lifespan, made a data connection over USB. I suspect that percentage is low single-digit percentages, and -- again speculating -- I would wager they are almost always by users with the pro models. Is it lame that it's USB 2.0? Yes. Will it matter at all for the overwhelming majority of users? Not in the slightest.

skunkworker 3y ago
And those users who will use the Pro for video/photos can now transfer them to external storage while shooting (finally).
NikolaNovak 3y ago
I have had a company mandated iPhone for about 4-5 years. First year, I tried to transfer data via USB. After I accepted that Apple hates me personally and does not want me to transfer any of my voice memos, photos, or videos, or documents, or files via USB (I don't have a macbook), you are indeed correct and I'm one of those people who does not make a data connection via USB to my iPhone. But while stat is true, as with all such stats, devil is in the details :).
- whycome 3y ago
  > Apple hates me Actually, you're exactly the person they love. Just enough annoyance to consider a macbook and iCloud.
  - pubutil 3y ago
    I got around this limitation by adding my home NAS to the Files app. On the iOS side: set up the SMB connection in Files, hit the Share button on files I want to transfer, point it to a folder on the NAS, and transfer. On the PC side, I just grab the file in Explorer. Airdrop works well for sharing files to other people's iOS devices, but I'd argue SMB is actually better for my use case. Airdrop sends files to a Mac's Downloads folder. SMB transferred files go exactly where I want them on the first try. The difference is just a couple extra taps in the 'Share' modal. Though I must admit this isn't a solution for everyone. I doubt many iPhone users have a NAS stood up at home and would be happy to spend money on the 'simpler' solution of purchasing turnkey products and services from Apple.
    - whycome 3y ago
      You should look into syncthing to add another layer there for the backup
wombat-man 3y ago
It's quite slow to even do a music sync, but I might be doing something wrong.
post_break 3y ago
Why would I use a lightning cable when getting data on or off the device is faster over Wifi. It's kind of a trick question, why don't you use this slower protocol? See no reason to upgrade it no one uses it!
- llm_nerd 3y ago
  It really isn't a trick question. If your needs are 100% satisfied through wireless, why would you ever care? I suspect for the overwhelming majority of iPhone users, even if the wired option was infinitely fast they would never have used it. We're long past the days of an iPhone suckling on iTunes. The exception to this -- and there are exceptions -- tend to be "pro" users. If you're actually using the iPhone for video production in any way, USB 2.0 is a brutal limitation, and has long been a noted annoyance when you're transferring massive video files. Lucky for those people they'll be Pro buyers and will enjoy USB 3 (and maybe WiFi 6E? Not sure if this was delivered).
  - lkois 3y ago
    > It really isn't a trick question. If your needs are 100% satisfied through wireless, why would you ever care? THIS is a trick question.
  - post_break 3y ago
    What's the safest way to ski? Don't ski.
Infinitesimus 3y ago
The number will be higher if you consider wired CarPlay
- andrewxdiamond 3y ago
  USB 2.0 and Lightning share the same speeds. Nothing changed
- masklinn 3y ago
  Wired carplay has been using USB 2.0 from the beginning, and it's always been fine. Why would it change?
accrual 3y ago
I'll raise my hand and say I still sync my iPhone over USB. Happy to move to WiFi, I just haven't, as my existing workflow works fine. I also have an old 2015 MBPr, so that plays into it as well.
r00fus 3y ago
I used to do physical backups until iOS16 arrived with advanced data protection (ie, E2EE in iCloud for backups).
motoboi 3y ago
They put USB 2.0 just to save a feature to include in another future release. Iphone 20: now with USB 3.0! And the raspberry pi has USB 3.0 for god's sake! It's not a matter of a dedicated processor block on the chip. <english is a second language to me, this is intended as humourous, not aggressive>
- llm_nerd 3y ago
  It definitely serves as a differentiation between Pro and base, and I'm sure they'll get some additional pro upgrades by people just looking at a piece of paper and deciding that they must have USB 3. However the lack of USB 3 IO on the existing chip from last year is a very real limitation. The Raspberry Pi 4 supports USB 3 via a separate host controller (the VL805) communicated with over PCI-e, given that the core SoC doesn't have the IO blocks...basically the same deal. That VL805 by itself is almost the size of the A16. Now of course Apple could make a USB 3 host controller dramatically smaller, but then they'd have a new SoC.
- kiririn 3y ago
  >It's not a matter of a dedicated processor block on the chip. Yes it is. It’s just rare for any modern SoC to leave out an XHCI controller, which the Pi and countless others have in their SoC. Apple was an outlier
  - llm_nerd 3y ago
    FWIW the A16 Bionic and earlier have a USB block, they just don't have a USB 3.0 block. They added one in the A17, probably porting over from the M1/M2. For that matter, neither does the BCM2711 on the RPi4. It leans on an external chip -- almost as large as it -- for USB 3.0 functionality.
AdamJacobMuller 3y ago
> I am curious what percentage of iPhones have ever, over their usage lifespan, made a data connection over USB. It's actually a security vulnerability to do so, I'm very cautious to never click trust and I wish there was a setting to disable USB (data) entirely. When that dialog pops up which asks if you want to "trust" the connected device, saying yes creates a token which is exchanged between the phone and the host and stored on the host. That token has special privileged with iOS and can exfiltrate some data from the phone without user interaction (this has become more and more minimal over the years, with the original iPhone as I recall it could literally take a full backup like from iTunes -- and there wasn't even a prompt on the phone to allow that). That token can also be exfiltrated from your computer and inserted into special boxes made by companies like NSO which have in the past utilize proprietary exploits to basically privilege escalate that minimal access and exfiltrate data from locked iPhones. I sound like a conspiracy theorist and I should probably just delete this.
- ta8903 3y ago
  You can turn off USB debugging.
meowtimemania 3y ago
I'm a techie apple nerd and I've never made a data connection over usb. Just use google photos/icloud drive/air drop to transfer data to my desktop computer
chipsa 3y ago
Most likely, they weren't looking at the A16 needing to support USB3, since it was a phone chip (iPads now running on Mx chips instead), and Lightning didn't support USB3. The USB-C mandate was only a year ago, and I expect they probably were planning on exactly what goes into the A16 a year further back, so unless they respun a new A16x chip that had the USB3 controller, there's no point where they could have forecast the A16 actually needing to support USB3 until it was too late.

skunkworker 3y ago

And those users who will use the Pro for video/photos can now transfer them to external storage while shooting (finally).

NikolaNovak 3y ago

I have had a company mandated iPhone for about 4-5 years. First year, I tried to transfer data via USB. After I accepted that Apple hates me personally and does not want me to transfer any of my voice memos, photos, or videos, or documents, or files via USB (I don't have a macbook), you are indeed correct and I'm one of those people who does not make a data connection via USB to my iPhone. But while stat is true, as with all such stats, devil is in the details :).

whycome 3y ago
> Apple hates me Actually, you're exactly the person they love. Just enough annoyance to consider a macbook and iCloud.
- pubutil 3y ago
  I got around this limitation by adding my home NAS to the Files app. On the iOS side: set up the SMB connection in Files, hit the Share button on files I want to transfer, point it to a folder on the NAS, and transfer. On the PC side, I just grab the file in Explorer. Airdrop works well for sharing files to other people's iOS devices, but I'd argue SMB is actually better for my use case. Airdrop sends files to a Mac's Downloads folder. SMB transferred files go exactly where I want them on the first try. The difference is just a couple extra taps in the 'Share' modal. Though I must admit this isn't a solution for everyone. I doubt many iPhone users have a NAS stood up at home and would be happy to spend money on the 'simpler' solution of purchasing turnkey products and services from Apple.
  - whycome 3y ago
    You should look into syncthing to add another layer there for the backup

wombat-man 3y ago

It's quite slow to even do a music sync, but I might be doing something wrong.

post_break 3y ago

Why would I use a lightning cable when getting data on or off the device is faster over Wifi. It's kind of a trick question, why don't you use this slower protocol? See no reason to upgrade it no one uses it!

llm_nerd 3y ago
It really isn't a trick question. If your needs are 100% satisfied through wireless, why would you ever care? I suspect for the overwhelming majority of iPhone users, even if the wired option was infinitely fast they would never have used it. We're long past the days of an iPhone suckling on iTunes. The exception to this -- and there are exceptions -- tend to be "pro" users. If you're actually using the iPhone for video production in any way, USB 2.0 is a brutal limitation, and has long been a noted annoyance when you're transferring massive video files. Lucky for those people they'll be Pro buyers and will enjoy USB 3 (and maybe WiFi 6E? Not sure if this was delivered).
- lkois 3y ago
  > It really isn't a trick question. If your needs are 100% satisfied through wireless, why would you ever care? THIS is a trick question.
- post_break 3y ago
  What's the safest way to ski? Don't ski.

Infinitesimus 3y ago

The number will be higher if you consider wired CarPlay

andrewxdiamond 3y ago
USB 2.0 and Lightning share the same speeds. Nothing changed
masklinn 3y ago
Wired carplay has been using USB 2.0 from the beginning, and it's always been fine. Why would it change?

accrual 3y ago

I'll raise my hand and say I still sync my iPhone over USB. Happy to move to WiFi, I just haven't, as my existing workflow works fine. I also have an old 2015 MBPr, so that plays into it as well.

r00fus 3y ago

I used to do physical backups until iOS16 arrived with advanced data protection (ie, E2EE in iCloud for backups).

motoboi 3y ago

They put USB 2.0 just to save a feature to include in another future release. Iphone 20: now with USB 3.0! And the raspberry pi has USB 3.0 for god's sake! It's not a matter of a dedicated processor block on the chip. <english is a second language to me, this is intended as humourous, not aggressive>

llm_nerd 3y ago
It definitely serves as a differentiation between Pro and base, and I'm sure they'll get some additional pro upgrades by people just looking at a piece of paper and deciding that they must have USB 3. However the lack of USB 3 IO on the existing chip from last year is a very real limitation. The Raspberry Pi 4 supports USB 3 via a separate host controller (the VL805) communicated with over PCI-e, given that the core SoC doesn't have the IO blocks...basically the same deal. That VL805 by itself is almost the size of the A16. Now of course Apple could make a USB 3 host controller dramatically smaller, but then they'd have a new SoC.
kiririn 3y ago
>It's not a matter of a dedicated processor block on the chip. Yes it is. It’s just rare for any modern SoC to leave out an XHCI controller, which the Pi and countless others have in their SoC. Apple was an outlier
- llm_nerd 3y ago
  FWIW the A16 Bionic and earlier have a USB block, they just don't have a USB 3.0 block. They added one in the A17, probably porting over from the M1/M2. For that matter, neither does the BCM2711 on the RPi4. It leans on an external chip -- almost as large as it -- for USB 3.0 functionality.

AdamJacobMuller 3y ago

> I am curious what percentage of iPhones have ever, over their usage lifespan, made a data connection over USB. It's actually a security vulnerability to do so, I'm very cautious to never click trust and I wish there was a setting to disable USB (data) entirely. When that dialog pops up which asks if you want to "trust" the connected device, saying yes creates a token which is exchanged between the phone and the host and stored on the host. That token has special privileged with iOS and can exfiltrate some data from the phone without user interaction (this has become more and more minimal over the years, with the original iPhone as I recall it could literally take a full backup like from iTunes -- and there wasn't even a prompt on the phone to allow that). That token can also be exfiltrated from your computer and inserted into special boxes made by companies like NSO which have in the past utilize proprietary exploits to basically privilege escalate that minimal access and exfiltrate data from locked iPhones. I sound like a conspiracy theorist and I should probably just delete this.

ta8903 3y ago
You can turn off USB debugging.

meowtimemania 3y ago

I'm a techie apple nerd and I've never made a data connection over usb. Just use google photos/icloud drive/air drop to transfer data to my desktop computer

chipsa 3y ago

Most likely, they weren't looking at the A16 needing to support USB3, since it was a phone chip (iPads now running on Mx chips instead), and Lightning didn't support USB3. The USB-C mandate was only a year ago, and I expect they probably were planning on exactly what goes into the A16 a year further back, so unless they respun a new A16x chip that had the USB3 controller, there's no point where they could have forecast the A16 actually needing to support USB3 until it was too late.