4 ms·

This is really quite wrong. Performance car /= sports car. Sports cars are light and nimble by definition. They are usually fast, but this is not a rule. There

This is really quite wrong. Performance car /= sports car. Sports cars are light and nimble by definition. They are usually fast, but this is not a rule. There have always been sedans that are faster in a straight line than most sports cars. There have always been sports cars that are not very fast at all. None of this is new, and claiming otherwise is ahistorical. Even back in the '60s, a sports car enthusiast would have chosen an MGB over a much faster Camaro, because the MGB is a sports car and the Camaro is not. Engagement, dynamics, and "feelsomeness" are not vague at all. Handling is the product of engineering. It is largely objective. Some cars really are easier to control than others. Some really do hold on better in the corners. Cars really do have more or less body roll and more or less oversteer. What "character" is best is a matter of opinion, but the car really does have that "character". The fact that something is hard to measure does not mean it doesn't exist. Sports car fans mean exactly what they say: they value handling over acceleration. If they didn't mean it, they wouldn't buy sports cars.

tsunamifury 3y ago
[flagged]
- adfiognionio 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - tsunamifury 3y ago
    Again, read your own statements here and think about who you want to be. Why be such a angry person on a forum where nothing matters...
AtlasBarfed 3y ago
And the Tesla plaid is the fastest nurburgring sedan ever made. Go ahead, say that's not a sports car.
- decafninja 3y ago
  If Nurburgring times are all we’re looking at, there are SUVs (ok, CUVs) that will destroy the times of “real sports cars”.
- timc3 3y ago
  Its not a sports car. Besides, BMW M4 CSL, Jaguar XE project 8, BMW M3, Mercedes AMG 63 GT have faster lap times.
  - AtlasBarfed 3y ago
    Fine. At the time when it ran that time it was the fastest, and faster than practically every sports car ever made. The nurburgring is about the most sports car track ever made. I don't really know how to measure anything about a car's sportiness other than its speed around the track generally agreed to be the most "Gran Turismo" style. If you want your own personal gatekeeping standards for "true sports car", whatever. When batteries double in density in the next ten years, your gatekeeping will look even more ridiculous. The ICE drivetrain is a zombie at this point that is surviving on inertia and the incompetence of legacy automakers.
    - wherefour 3y ago
      > Fine. At the time when it ran that time it was the fastest, See here: https://www.hotcars.com/fastest-sedans-around-the-nurburgring/#2019-mercedes-amg-gt-63-s---7-25-41 https://www.hotcars.com/fastest-sedans-around-the-nurburgrin... And join with the list here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_N%C3%BCrburgring_Nordschleife_lap_times#Lap_times https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_N%C3%BCrburgring_Nords... All five sedans that beat the Model S around the Nürburgring drove their laps earlier. The Plaid has only ever been the sixth fastest sedan around the 'ring. Which is excellent, but not what you said. >and faster than practically every sports car ever made. It isn't. It loses even to the 2012 Nissan GT-R or 2007 911 GT2. It loses to any of the faster 911s by nearly a minute. It is faster than some sports cars, but not recent sports cars at a similar price. How is it that the Plaid, despite being one of the fastest cars on the road in a straight line, loses quite badly to cars with half the power? Because there is much more to performance than just acceleration. The cars you disparage are dramatically better in the corners than the Plaid. >The nurburgring is about the most sports car track ever made. I don't quite know what this means, but I don't think it's true. The use of the 'ring as a benchmark is often criticized because it rewards power over handling. A track that specifically tests handling would be slower and twistier. This is not sour grapes; people have been saying this for decades.

tsunamifury 3y ago

[flagged]

adfiognionio 3y ago
[flagged]
- tsunamifury 3y ago
  Again, read your own statements here and think about who you want to be. Why be such a angry person on a forum where nothing matters...

AtlasBarfed 3y ago

And the Tesla plaid is the fastest nurburgring sedan ever made. Go ahead, say that's not a sports car.

decafninja 3y ago
If Nurburgring times are all we’re looking at, there are SUVs (ok, CUVs) that will destroy the times of “real sports cars”.
timc3 3y ago
Its not a sports car. Besides, BMW M4 CSL, Jaguar XE project 8, BMW M3, Mercedes AMG 63 GT have faster lap times.
- AtlasBarfed 3y ago
  Fine. At the time when it ran that time it was the fastest, and faster than practically every sports car ever made. The nurburgring is about the most sports car track ever made. I don't really know how to measure anything about a car's sportiness other than its speed around the track generally agreed to be the most "Gran Turismo" style. If you want your own personal gatekeeping standards for "true sports car", whatever. When batteries double in density in the next ten years, your gatekeeping will look even more ridiculous. The ICE drivetrain is a zombie at this point that is surviving on inertia and the incompetence of legacy automakers.
  - wherefour 3y ago
    > Fine. At the time when it ran that time it was the fastest, See here: https://www.hotcars.com/fastest-sedans-around-the-nurburgring/#2019-mercedes-amg-gt-63-s---7-25-41 https://www.hotcars.com/fastest-sedans-around-the-nurburgrin... And join with the list here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_N%C3%BCrburgring_Nordschleife_lap_times#Lap_times https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_N%C3%BCrburgring_Nords... All five sedans that beat the Model S around the Nürburgring drove their laps earlier. The Plaid has only ever been the sixth fastest sedan around the 'ring. Which is excellent, but not what you said. >and faster than practically every sports car ever made. It isn't. It loses even to the 2012 Nissan GT-R or 2007 911 GT2. It loses to any of the faster 911s by nearly a minute. It is faster than some sports cars, but not recent sports cars at a similar price. How is it that the Plaid, despite being one of the fastest cars on the road in a straight line, loses quite badly to cars with half the power? Because there is much more to performance than just acceleration. The cars you disparage are dramatically better in the corners than the Plaid. >The nurburgring is about the most sports car track ever made. I don't quite know what this means, but I don't think it's true. The use of the 'ring as a benchmark is often criticized because it rewards power over handling. A track that specifically tests handling would be slower and twistier. This is not sour grapes; people have been saying this for decades.