3 ms·

What would you have them do? Go sneaking around the Chinese Science Academy in Wuhan trying to find hard evidence in the dumpsters 4 years later? I'm not a fan

What would you have them do? Go sneaking around the Chinese Science Academy in Wuhan trying to find hard evidence in the dumpsters 4 years later? I'm not a fan of some "journalists" saying, "it's just the flu" and worried more about Trump's re-election than those that they no doubt killed, but I'm actually not sure what real journalists should have done either. Also, people were crying out for their blood while indulging in deranged conspiracies against them just for pointing a camera at their master and letting him talk. Even if they could fly over to China and investigate, being caught in Wuhan investigating would have both the Chinese government and the deranged conspiracy nuts crying out for your death, the latter claiming they found it too "suspicious" you were in Wuhan at all.

cameldrv 3y ago
They have tried something similar (getting to the bat cave in Yunnan), but the Chinese put literal roadblocks in their way (parking a truck in the middle of the road to stop them from getting to the cave) https://www.businessinsider.com/china-policing-bat-caves-scientists-hope-coronavirus-clues-inside-2020-12 https://www.businessinsider.com/china-policing-bat-caves-sci... Getting any information from China has been made extremely difficult. I think it's reasonable to draw some conclusions from that.
- omginternets 3y ago
  Yes, and at a minimum, this is evidence of a literal conspiracy.
- Obscurity4340 3y ago
  Why can't they sanction China for obstructing this effort? They've got a real nice economy, it would be a shame if we piled on sanctions to help compound their current economic woes if they refus to allow this work to be done. That they were already read to go in blocking that cave suggests they already knew and are being obstructive.
  - callalex 3y ago
    Because, frankly, they have won the economic war. Every modern country is 100% reliant on the manufacturing that happens in China.
  - omginternets 3y ago
    This is effectively what is happening. The key phrases to look out for are "strategic interests" and "critical infrastructure". See: repatriation of chip-manufacturing, for example.
    - Obscurity4340 3y ago
      I don't see (given their environment about secrecy and not wanting to give their bosses/politicians the bad news when there are failures) how this could be successfull. Its hard to innovate when your family risks being disappeared when you inevitably fail at some point of the larger effort and on the way to results that transcend the faults of that overall developmental process.
      - cameldrv 3y ago
        The point is, the people in charge know what happened. They just have to decide what they can do about it. You're seeing it.
        Obscurity4340 3y ago
        I realize too, its kind of hard to think about the next step after this line of analysis terminates. Like, ok, China was running sketch experiments and was not scrupulous enough in their oversight and safety practices, blah blah blah(!), what now? Are you gonna charge them the tabulated bill all over the world? It would destroy them or more accurately, give them a situation where they become Germany after WWI and have nothing to lose. There needs to be an effort where they are held accountable and the zen koan paper tiger bullshit threats can be summarily sliced through but that still allows them to somehow save face on the world stage and domestically. I know it can't be easy to run that tight a ship without making powerful enemies no matter which step or direction you take.

cameldrv 3y ago

They have tried something similar (getting to the bat cave in Yunnan), but the Chinese put literal roadblocks in their way (parking a truck in the middle of the road to stop them from getting to the cave) https://www.businessinsider.com/china-policing-bat-caves-scientists-hope-coronavirus-clues-inside-2020-12 https://www.businessinsider.com/china-policing-bat-caves-sci... Getting any information from China has been made extremely difficult. I think it's reasonable to draw some conclusions from that.

omginternets 3y ago
Yes, and at a minimum, this is evidence of a literal conspiracy.
Obscurity4340 3y ago
Why can't they sanction China for obstructing this effort? They've got a real nice economy, it would be a shame if we piled on sanctions to help compound their current economic woes if they refus to allow this work to be done. That they were already read to go in blocking that cave suggests they already knew and are being obstructive.
- callalex 3y ago
  Because, frankly, they have won the economic war. Every modern country is 100% reliant on the manufacturing that happens in China.
- omginternets 3y ago
  This is effectively what is happening. The key phrases to look out for are "strategic interests" and "critical infrastructure". See: repatriation of chip-manufacturing, for example.
  - Obscurity4340 3y ago
    I don't see (given their environment about secrecy and not wanting to give their bosses/politicians the bad news when there are failures) how this could be successfull. Its hard to innovate when your family risks being disappeared when you inevitably fail at some point of the larger effort and on the way to results that transcend the faults of that overall developmental process.
    - cameldrv 3y ago
      The point is, the people in charge know what happened. They just have to decide what they can do about it. You're seeing it.
      - Obscurity4340 3y ago
        I realize too, its kind of hard to think about the next step after this line of analysis terminates. Like, ok, China was running sketch experiments and was not scrupulous enough in their oversight and safety practices, blah blah blah(!), what now? Are you gonna charge them the tabulated bill all over the world? It would destroy them or more accurately, give them a situation where they become Germany after WWI and have nothing to lose. There needs to be an effort where they are held accountable and the zen koan paper tiger bullshit threats can be summarily sliced through but that still allows them to somehow save face on the world stage and domestically. I know it can't be easy to run that tight a ship without making powerful enemies no matter which step or direction you take.