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Up until this past winter basically, natural gas in NorCal was so cheap that you could probably use much more energy and still come out ahead money wise.

KennyBlanken 3y ago
We're well past the point of optimizing for cost unless you're one of those "well it doesn't matter, I'll be dead by then" people who don't care about what's happening to the planet.
- lazide 3y ago
  Or just don’t have massive amounts of unused capital sitting around to spend, or are poor. I guess they can just freeze then?
- seiferteric 3y ago
  Not at all, but the article talks about it as a money saving thing as well and doesn't even mention the fact that gas has been cheaper: > he said it also stresses the need for more supports for low-income people to install heat pumps to save money and limit emissions.
ilyt 3y ago
One of interesting-if-too-expensive methods I've seen was basically having gas powered heat pumps. IIRC It was basically using normal gas engine to move the coolant around but it also used heat produced by engine to heat the coils on the cold side so it was getting essentially more than 100% efficiency out of gas. But it was even more expensive than traditional heat pump.
- seiferteric 3y ago
  Ah sort of co-generation, sounds interesting.
- tomatocracy 3y ago
  Sounds a lot like the idea behind combined cycle gas turbines.
- undersuit 3y ago
  You can get refrigerators that will run off of compressed propane. Popular in RVs when you don't have electricity.
  - ilyt 3y ago
    Propane is also used in some new fridges and in heat pumps. I remember some fridge manual where it said minimum room size because they basically did the calculation "if it escapes and room is at least that big, it won't be stoichometric mixture and cause masssive explosion. I also heard rumours people with old cars that had AC running on freon use it as replacement...
- beerandt 3y ago
  One of the reasons for natural gas prices increasing is that the compressors that power the system have historically been gas powered, but all federal permits in the last decade or so have required electric compressors, even in remote locations. And not just new installs, but for existing work/ upgrades. It's a 2-for, in that price increases and reliability decreases, since the gas grid now requires the (remote) electric grid to work.

KennyBlanken 3y ago

We're well past the point of optimizing for cost unless you're one of those "well it doesn't matter, I'll be dead by then" people who don't care about what's happening to the planet.

lazide 3y ago
Or just don’t have massive amounts of unused capital sitting around to spend, or are poor. I guess they can just freeze then?
seiferteric 3y ago
Not at all, but the article talks about it as a money saving thing as well and doesn't even mention the fact that gas has been cheaper: > he said it also stresses the need for more supports for low-income people to install heat pumps to save money and limit emissions.

ilyt 3y ago

One of interesting-if-too-expensive methods I've seen was basically having gas powered heat pumps. IIRC It was basically using normal gas engine to move the coolant around but it also used heat produced by engine to heat the coils on the cold side so it was getting essentially more than 100% efficiency out of gas. But it was even more expensive than traditional heat pump.

seiferteric 3y ago
Ah sort of co-generation, sounds interesting.
tomatocracy 3y ago
Sounds a lot like the idea behind combined cycle gas turbines.
undersuit 3y ago
You can get refrigerators that will run off of compressed propane. Popular in RVs when you don't have electricity.
- ilyt 3y ago
  Propane is also used in some new fridges and in heat pumps. I remember some fridge manual where it said minimum room size because they basically did the calculation "if it escapes and room is at least that big, it won't be stoichometric mixture and cause masssive explosion. I also heard rumours people with old cars that had AC running on freon use it as replacement...
beerandt 3y ago
One of the reasons for natural gas prices increasing is that the compressors that power the system have historically been gas powered, but all federal permits in the last decade or so have required electric compressors, even in remote locations. And not just new installs, but for existing work/ upgrades. It's a 2-for, in that price increases and reliability decreases, since the gas grid now requires the (remote) electric grid to work.