5 ms·

I could argue that, but it would be wrong. For me, art is about human connection. When I look at a work, I'm interested not just in the surface layer of the ima

I could argue that, but it would be wrong. For me, art is about human connection. When I look at a work, I'm interested not just in the surface layer of the image, but what the work evokes in me and what was in the mind and context of its creator. If what I'm getting is just a synthetic, semi-random découpé, then that is lost. Similarly, looking at randomly generated maps can be fun, but it's a pretty shallow fun unless there's a real territory represented there. That said, it can also be interesting to look at the machinery that's generating it, in the same way I enjoy videos of how things get made. But it's a different kind of interest and engages different parts of my mind.

mc32 3y ago
To me it's the basic, "does a a tree falling in a forest with no one around to hear it make a sound?" Perception vs reality.
- arcticfox 3y ago
  I don't really get the connection between the scenarios - and trying to think through it I just ran into one more realization of how LLMs have changed things. If I was sure a human wrote this I'd probably put some more effort to see things from that perspective, maybe it's a good way to think about it. But unfortunately now that this type of comment can be the rambling of an LLM, I don't want to put in the effort when it could simply be a mechanical fever dream...
jnovek 3y ago
“For me, art is about human connection.” I find the story of a human who makes an excellent fake pretty fascinating. There are noteworthy examples of forgery-as-art throughout history. I think art, as a concept, is a big enough space to house both things.
- viciousvoxel 3y ago
  In fact, there's a museum of forgeries in Vienna (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Museum_of_Art_Fakes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Museum_of_Art_Fakes)
- wpietri 3y ago
  Sure, I am also very interested in forgers. I'm also interested in the machinery of what's currently getting labeled as AI. But I'm not interested in having one confused for the others.
hypeit 3y ago
> I could argue that, but it would be wrong. You wouldn't be wrong, you would just be post-modern. As a post-modernist viewer, I decide the context that I want to place media in.
- SiempreViernes 3y ago
  Pretty sure the post-modern thinkers still care about authorship credit though, which is what we're discussing.
  - hypeit 3y ago
    I would argue that's not the case. The entire concept of "reality" is left to the individual in post-modern thought. I think eliminating the notion of authorship would be a solidly post-modern position to take.
    - wpietri 3y ago
      Do you have a citation for that? I've seen that as a cartoon of postmodernism, but I don't think I've ever seen a postmodernist scholar claim that.
      - hypeit 3y ago
        > Postmodernism rejects the possibility of unmediated reality or objectively-rational knowledge, asserting that all interpretations are contingent on the perspective from which they are made;[5] claims to objective fact are dismissed as naive realism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postmodernism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postmodernism
        SiempreViernes 3y ago
        When reality is dependent on who is speaking, authorship seems to be even more important!
bitvoid 3y ago
> If what I'm getting is just a synthetic, semi-random découpé, then that is lost. It certainly comes down to perception, interpretation, and a blind assumption though, right? Before generative AI, the blind assumption was that some human made a piece of art. That might be changing now, but if you didn't know (and couldn't know) a piece was artificial, feelings may still be evoked and you might still infer some meaning from it. With that said, not all art need be about human connection. I still enjoy mindless dubstep music on occasion despite not caring one bit about the artist or any meaning behind it (if any even exists beyond "it sounds cool"). The only value there is my enjoyment of it, but then again, I think enjoyment is the most valuable aspect of any piece.
ComputerGuru 3y ago
> When I look at a work, I'm interested not just in the surface layer of the image, but what the work evokes in me and what was in the mind and context of its creator. Let’s put AI aside for a minute, then. When a suspected {Van Gogh, Vermeer, Picasso, etc} is found to actually be from a temporally coincident painter, perhaps one of his pupils, why can you no longer do that?

mc32 3y ago

To me it's the basic, "does a a tree falling in a forest with no one around to hear it make a sound?" Perception vs reality.

arcticfox 3y ago
I don't really get the connection between the scenarios - and trying to think through it I just ran into one more realization of how LLMs have changed things. If I was sure a human wrote this I'd probably put some more effort to see things from that perspective, maybe it's a good way to think about it. But unfortunately now that this type of comment can be the rambling of an LLM, I don't want to put in the effort when it could simply be a mechanical fever dream...

jnovek 3y ago

“For me, art is about human connection.” I find the story of a human who makes an excellent fake pretty fascinating. There are noteworthy examples of forgery-as-art throughout history. I think art, as a concept, is a big enough space to house both things.

viciousvoxel 3y ago
In fact, there's a museum of forgeries in Vienna (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Museum_of_Art_Fakes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Museum_of_Art_Fakes)
wpietri 3y ago
Sure, I am also very interested in forgers. I'm also interested in the machinery of what's currently getting labeled as AI. But I'm not interested in having one confused for the others.

hypeit 3y ago

> I could argue that, but it would be wrong. You wouldn't be wrong, you would just be post-modern. As a post-modernist viewer, I decide the context that I want to place media in.

SiempreViernes 3y ago
Pretty sure the post-modern thinkers still care about authorship credit though, which is what we're discussing.
- hypeit 3y ago
  I would argue that's not the case. The entire concept of "reality" is left to the individual in post-modern thought. I think eliminating the notion of authorship would be a solidly post-modern position to take.
  - wpietri 3y ago
    Do you have a citation for that? I've seen that as a cartoon of postmodernism, but I don't think I've ever seen a postmodernist scholar claim that.
    - hypeit 3y ago
      > Postmodernism rejects the possibility of unmediated reality or objectively-rational knowledge, asserting that all interpretations are contingent on the perspective from which they are made;[5] claims to objective fact are dismissed as naive realism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postmodernism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postmodernism
      - SiempreViernes 3y ago
        When reality is dependent on who is speaking, authorship seems to be even more important!

bitvoid 3y ago

> If what I'm getting is just a synthetic, semi-random découpé, then that is lost. It certainly comes down to perception, interpretation, and a blind assumption though, right? Before generative AI, the blind assumption was that some human made a piece of art. That might be changing now, but if you didn't know (and couldn't know) a piece was artificial, feelings may still be evoked and you might still infer some meaning from it. With that said, not all art need be about human connection. I still enjoy mindless dubstep music on occasion despite not caring one bit about the artist or any meaning behind it (if any even exists beyond "it sounds cool"). The only value there is my enjoyment of it, but then again, I think enjoyment is the most valuable aspect of any piece.

ComputerGuru 3y ago

> When I look at a work, I'm interested not just in the surface layer of the image, but what the work evokes in me and what was in the mind and context of its creator. Let’s put AI aside for a minute, then. When a suspected {Van Gogh, Vermeer, Picasso, etc} is found to actually be from a temporally coincident painter, perhaps one of his pupils, why can you no longer do that?