3 ms·

The rebuttal I've heard to this is that they're not killing the same birds. Cats kill small, common birds like robins and sparrows whose populations can easily

The rebuttal I've heard to this is that they're not killing the same birds. Cats kill small, common birds like robins and sparrows whose populations can easily absorb the loss. Wind turbines kill larger, rarer birds like eagles and owls, whose deaths have a much bigger ecological impact. Someone more qualified than me can dissect this argument and crunch the data. Just mentioning it to illustrate that the "they kill birds!" argument might be more nuanced than you think.

rcpt 3y ago
> populations can easily absorb the loss Cats drive bird species to extinction all the time.
- lapinot 3y ago
  I'm not convinced by this part too, but it doesn't invalidate the actual argument that these are partly disjoint.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    Australia is concerned enough wrt cats impacting biodiversity: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/sep/04/invasive-species-no-1-driver-of-biodiversity-loss-in-australia-and-feral-cats-have-biggest-impact-report-finds https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/sep/04/invasive... https://www.npr.org/2023/09/12/1198822110/australia-weighs-cat-curfews-and-neutering-requirements-to-rein-in-feral-felines https://www.npr.org/2023/09/12/1198822110/australia-weighs-c... https://phys.org/news/2023-09-australian-year-feral-cat-closer.html https://phys.org/news/2023-09-australian-year-feral-cat-clos... https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/08/world/asia/culling-curfews-and-caps-australia-declares-war-on-its-cat-problem.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/08/world/asia/culling-curfew... Also, https://abcbirds.org/program/cats-indoors/cats-and-birds/ https://abcbirds.org/program/cats-indoors/cats-and-birds/ | https://dariuszzdziebk.wpenginepowered.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Lowe-et-al.-2004-IUCN-top-100-invasives.pdf https://dariuszzdziebk.wpenginepowered.com/wp-content/upload... > Outdoor domestic cats are a recognized threat to global biodiversity. Cats have contributed to the extinction of 63 species of birds, mammals, and reptiles in the wild and continue to adversely impact a wide variety of other species, including those at risk of extinction, such as Piping Plover. > The ecological dangers are so critical that the International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN) lists domestic cats as one of the world’s worst non-native invasive species.
    - lapinot 3y ago
      I completely agree it's a real thing. But couldn't we say the same thing about homo sapiens? Isn't the amount of domestic cats basically tied to the number of humans across history? "The ecological dangers are so critical that the International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN) lists humans as one of the world’s worst non-native invasive species." Pretty believable! My take is it's always better to put one's house in order before trying to influence the behavior of others.

rcpt 3y ago

> populations can easily absorb the loss Cats drive bird species to extinction all the time.

lapinot 3y ago
I'm not convinced by this part too, but it doesn't invalidate the actual argument that these are partly disjoint.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  Australia is concerned enough wrt cats impacting biodiversity: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/sep/04/invasive-species-no-1-driver-of-biodiversity-loss-in-australia-and-feral-cats-have-biggest-impact-report-finds https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/sep/04/invasive... https://www.npr.org/2023/09/12/1198822110/australia-weighs-cat-curfews-and-neutering-requirements-to-rein-in-feral-felines https://www.npr.org/2023/09/12/1198822110/australia-weighs-c... https://phys.org/news/2023-09-australian-year-feral-cat-closer.html https://phys.org/news/2023-09-australian-year-feral-cat-clos... https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/08/world/asia/culling-curfews-and-caps-australia-declares-war-on-its-cat-problem.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/08/world/asia/culling-curfew... Also, https://abcbirds.org/program/cats-indoors/cats-and-birds/ https://abcbirds.org/program/cats-indoors/cats-and-birds/ | https://dariuszzdziebk.wpenginepowered.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Lowe-et-al.-2004-IUCN-top-100-invasives.pdf https://dariuszzdziebk.wpenginepowered.com/wp-content/upload... > Outdoor domestic cats are a recognized threat to global biodiversity. Cats have contributed to the extinction of 63 species of birds, mammals, and reptiles in the wild and continue to adversely impact a wide variety of other species, including those at risk of extinction, such as Piping Plover. > The ecological dangers are so critical that the International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN) lists domestic cats as one of the world’s worst non-native invasive species.
  - lapinot 3y ago
    I completely agree it's a real thing. But couldn't we say the same thing about homo sapiens? Isn't the amount of domestic cats basically tied to the number of humans across history? "The ecological dangers are so critical that the International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN) lists humans as one of the world’s worst non-native invasive species." Pretty believable! My take is it's always better to put one's house in order before trying to influence the behavior of others.