4 ms·

As a lifetime Linux user, I think it's obvious. A startup is about getting a product out to market as soon as possible, and hopefully as cheaply as possible, wh

As a lifetime Linux user, I think it's obvious. A startup is about getting a product out to market as soon as possible, and hopefully as cheaply as possible, which can best be done with open and freely available tools. When I'm in the zone, my creativity is flowing, the last thing I need is to register on some website, or to purchase a license.

hardware2win 3y ago
How is this even related to dotnet? All you need to type is some apt get dotn... and you can go
- INTPenis 3y ago
  Then I guess Microsoft have a long way to come in destroying old stigmas about their software and ecosystem. I was actually devops for a .net project at my $dayjob, and I noticed the nuget repositories we setup in Gitlab for the developers. So I could tell that a lot of my preconceptions about .net are probably wrong. But I'd still prefer any other language like Python, Rust, Golang, Nodejs just because I'm afraid of running into some enterprise wall in their historic walled garden. It's so damn frustrating to run into tooling issues, and when they stem from ruthless capitalism it seems even more frustrating than simple package management issues with npm for example. At least I can always check the source code. ;)
  - hardware2win 3y ago
    >It's so damn frustrating to run into tooling issues, and when they stem from ruthless capitalism it seems even more frustrating than simple package management issues with npm for example. At least I can always check the source code. ;) https://source.dot.net https://source.dot.net or github >than simple package management issues with npm Unlike js, Microsoft has shitton of stuff in std, so no need for 3rd :)
- fennecfired 3y ago
  You edited your comment, but the comparison of Microsoft to Oracle is pretty fitting. They're both the worst of the worst.
- aragilar 3y ago
  Uh, what, I'm not seeing it? $ apt search dotnet Sorting... Done Full Text Search... Done libgtk-dotnet3.0-cil/testing,unstable 2.99.3-4.1 amd64 GTK.NET library libgtk-dotnet3.0-cil-dev/testing,unstable 2.99.3-4.1 amd64 GTK.NET library - development files libgtk2.0-cil/testing,unstable 2.12.40-3.1 amd64 CLI binding for the GTK+ toolkit 2.12 libgtk2.0-cil-dev/testing,unstable 2.12.40-3.1 amd64 CLI binding for the GTK+ toolkit 2.12
  - hardware2win 3y ago
    sudo apt-get update && \ sudo apt-get install -y dotnet-sdk-7.0 Repo wget https://packages.microsoft.com/config/debian/12/packages-microsoft-prod.deb https://packages.microsoft.com/config/debian/12/packages-mic... -O packages-microsoft-prod.deb sudo dpkg -i packages-microsoft-prod.deb rm packages-microsoft-prod.deb
    - aragilar 3y ago
      That you point at some random third-party repo (compared to the distro I'm using) kinda proves my point...
qingcharles 3y ago
You don't need to register anything. I run all my .NET Core web sites under Linux. I just install the packages and start the daemon.
naasking 3y ago
> A startup is about getting a product out to market as soon as possible, and hopefully as cheaply as possible, which can best be done with open and freely available tools. C# tooling is open and freely available. The source for the compiler and tools are all on github and the tools are all available free to download and use.
- conor- 3y ago
  The tooling is not entirely open or freely available. If you, for e.g., want to debug you have to use MS tooling.[0] You also can't use VSCodium because only the MS built/distributed version of VSCode contains the proprietary binary blobs necessary to debug C# (which also means you're forced into the aggressive telemetry and other data collection built into the non-open source distribution of VSCode). They've also taken steps to lock down the LSP support for C#, which once again requires that you use a MS sanctioned editor to write C#. [1] I really enjoy writing C# and think dotnet is a great platform to develop for, but the barriers preventing me from building more projects on it is that I don't want to be forced to use VSCode or Visual Studio. I also don't want to get too invested into a particular piece of tooling that is going to be rug pulled down the road by some MS product manager who isn't aligned with the "MS <3 OSS" side of the company. [0] https://github.com/dotnet/core/issues/505 https://github.com/dotnet/core/issues/505 [1] https://github.com/dotnet/vscode-csharp/issues/5276 https://github.com/dotnet/vscode-csharp/issues/5276
  - naasking 3y ago
    Those links both show the tooling is freely available, and for the core debugging interface, there are open source implementations as documented at those links as well. I'm not sure what the problem is.
    - aragilar 3y ago
      There's a number of caveats on that statement though (e.g. "freely available" only to vscode users), and that is the problem.
xtracto 3y ago
I've been in the rodeo for 20 years now. I started as a Jr dev in a Microsoft based software company that had some kind of M$ certification which gave us all the MSDN CDs. I was the first C# .Net programmer when I joined as C# had just been introduced and I loved learning it at uni as an alternative to ugly Java. The two things that "bit" me all these years is that, all "free" stuff given by Microsoft was just "hooks" to claw you into their expensive and closed ecosystem . As someone said, there may be some misconceptions from legacy behaviour that is no longer true, but I fear that the only "first class" citizen CLR and tooling for .NET lives in windows. Suddenly you need IIS and sqlserver windows and all the expensive stack. OTOH I think as a language C# is pretty neat and CLR is great tech as well, but I wouldnt dare to use it on production in a Linux system
- tester756 3y ago
  >Suddenly you need IIS and sqlserver windows and all the expensive stack. How do you even imagine it could work?
tomjen3 3y ago
Its very funny because .NET is open source and does not require a license. It has also steadily grown more powerful over years. But it comes from the corporate world, was a Windows only product for years and (worse) was made by Microsoft, so hackers ignored it. I only figured out how good it was because I started a job doing, yes, corporate/government it.

hardware2win 3y ago

How is this even related to dotnet? All you need to type is some apt get dotn... and you can go

INTPenis 3y ago
Then I guess Microsoft have a long way to come in destroying old stigmas about their software and ecosystem. I was actually devops for a .net project at my $dayjob, and I noticed the nuget repositories we setup in Gitlab for the developers. So I could tell that a lot of my preconceptions about .net are probably wrong. But I'd still prefer any other language like Python, Rust, Golang, Nodejs just because I'm afraid of running into some enterprise wall in their historic walled garden. It's so damn frustrating to run into tooling issues, and when they stem from ruthless capitalism it seems even more frustrating than simple package management issues with npm for example. At least I can always check the source code. ;)
- hardware2win 3y ago
  >It's so damn frustrating to run into tooling issues, and when they stem from ruthless capitalism it seems even more frustrating than simple package management issues with npm for example. At least I can always check the source code. ;) https://source.dot.net https://source.dot.net or github >than simple package management issues with npm Unlike js, Microsoft has shitton of stuff in std, so no need for 3rd :)
fennecfired 3y ago
You edited your comment, but the comparison of Microsoft to Oracle is pretty fitting. They're both the worst of the worst.
aragilar 3y ago
Uh, what, I'm not seeing it? $ apt search dotnet Sorting... Done Full Text Search... Done libgtk-dotnet3.0-cil/testing,unstable 2.99.3-4.1 amd64 GTK.NET library libgtk-dotnet3.0-cil-dev/testing,unstable 2.99.3-4.1 amd64 GTK.NET library - development files libgtk2.0-cil/testing,unstable 2.12.40-3.1 amd64 CLI binding for the GTK+ toolkit 2.12 libgtk2.0-cil-dev/testing,unstable 2.12.40-3.1 amd64 CLI binding for the GTK+ toolkit 2.12
- hardware2win 3y ago
  sudo apt-get update && \ sudo apt-get install -y dotnet-sdk-7.0 Repo wget https://packages.microsoft.com/config/debian/12/packages-microsoft-prod.deb https://packages.microsoft.com/config/debian/12/packages-mic... -O packages-microsoft-prod.deb sudo dpkg -i packages-microsoft-prod.deb rm packages-microsoft-prod.deb
  - aragilar 3y ago
    That you point at some random third-party repo (compared to the distro I'm using) kinda proves my point...

qingcharles 3y ago

You don't need to register anything. I run all my .NET Core web sites under Linux. I just install the packages and start the daemon.

naasking 3y ago

> A startup is about getting a product out to market as soon as possible, and hopefully as cheaply as possible, which can best be done with open and freely available tools. C# tooling is open and freely available. The source for the compiler and tools are all on github and the tools are all available free to download and use.

conor- 3y ago
The tooling is not entirely open or freely available. If you, for e.g., want to debug you have to use MS tooling.[0] You also can't use VSCodium because only the MS built/distributed version of VSCode contains the proprietary binary blobs necessary to debug C# (which also means you're forced into the aggressive telemetry and other data collection built into the non-open source distribution of VSCode). They've also taken steps to lock down the LSP support for C#, which once again requires that you use a MS sanctioned editor to write C#. [1] I really enjoy writing C# and think dotnet is a great platform to develop for, but the barriers preventing me from building more projects on it is that I don't want to be forced to use VSCode or Visual Studio. I also don't want to get too invested into a particular piece of tooling that is going to be rug pulled down the road by some MS product manager who isn't aligned with the "MS <3 OSS" side of the company. [0] https://github.com/dotnet/core/issues/505 https://github.com/dotnet/core/issues/505 [1] https://github.com/dotnet/vscode-csharp/issues/5276 https://github.com/dotnet/vscode-csharp/issues/5276
- naasking 3y ago
  Those links both show the tooling is freely available, and for the core debugging interface, there are open source implementations as documented at those links as well. I'm not sure what the problem is.
  - aragilar 3y ago
    There's a number of caveats on that statement though (e.g. "freely available" only to vscode users), and that is the problem.

xtracto 3y ago

I've been in the rodeo for 20 years now. I started as a Jr dev in a Microsoft based software company that had some kind of M$ certification which gave us all the MSDN CDs. I was the first C# .Net programmer when I joined as C# had just been introduced and I loved learning it at uni as an alternative to ugly Java. The two things that "bit" me all these years is that, all "free" stuff given by Microsoft was just "hooks" to claw you into their expensive and closed ecosystem . As someone said, there may be some misconceptions from legacy behaviour that is no longer true, but I fear that the only "first class" citizen CLR and tooling for .NET lives in windows. Suddenly you need IIS and sqlserver windows and all the expensive stack. OTOH I think as a language C# is pretty neat and CLR is great tech as well, but I wouldnt dare to use it on production in a Linux system

tester756 3y ago
>Suddenly you need IIS and sqlserver windows and all the expensive stack. How do you even imagine it could work?

tomjen3 3y ago

Its very funny because .NET is open source and does not require a license. It has also steadily grown more powerful over years. But it comes from the corporate world, was a Windows only product for years and (worse) was made by Microsoft, so hackers ignored it. I only figured out how good it was because I started a job doing, yes, corporate/government it.