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Apple would cannibalize their computer and iPad sales if they were supporting the thin client model like Samsung DeX. See how they already avoid cannibalization

by rffn 3y ago

Apple would cannibalize their computer and iPad sales if they were supporting the thin client model like Samsung DeX. See how they already avoid cannibalization of the iPhone business by preventing the iPad to make phone calls. They protect their product lines from each other. As much as I like to see such a feature, I don’t think Apple will ever give it to us.

kalleboo 3y ago
Which is a very sad conclusion because Steve Jobs was very explicit that they had to cannibalize their own products or someone else would.
- eviks 3y ago
  There are things people say and then there are things people do
  - kalleboo 3y ago
    Steve Jobs is dead.
    - trompetenaccoun 3y ago
      What the user probably means is that just because he said this publicly doesn't mean he meant it. Steve Jobs was great at marketing and was well informed on what potential buyers wanted to hear.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  SJ said a lot of things. There is nothing courageous about cannibalizing an iPod that had an average selling price of $200 and a much smaller market with a phone that is three times more expensive
  - zpeti 3y ago
    That's very easy to say in hindsight. Cannibalising a public company's most successful product and profit source is extremely risky, especially for management. There is a reason this is so rare. It goes against many of our ingrained behaviours as humans. So I don't think it's as obvious as you make out.
    - scarface_74 3y ago
      It was very obvious even then. Apple was selling 50 million iPods per year at $200 a piece. During the iPhone introduction, SJ said he was aiming to sell 10 million phones to capture 1% of the market the first year. That means even then, the phone market was 1 billion devices a year. That was a much larger market than the stand alone music player market. It was also clear that’s where the market was headed. Phone makers were already starting to sell music capable phones
  - kalleboo 3y ago
    The context I was thinking of was the iPad. At the time it was really thought it was completely going to kneecap the portable Mac line (even Apple believed it and invested more in iPad development than Mac development). It was only after Jobs left our mortal coil that the iPad really stagnated in comparison to what the hardware itself was capable of.
- dwaite 3y ago
  I believe this is specifically not to fear making something better due to potential cannibalization. I suspect they don't feel iPhone apps (at as they are coded by developers today) as a "KVM-style" desktop experience is 'making something better' than the Mac - or even really worth doing.
IggleSniggle 3y ago
See also: cellular Apple Watch unable to make calls/texts without being tethered (over an Internet connection, remotely!) to an iPhone.
- endisneigh 3y ago
  Cellular Apple Watches can make phone calls even if your iPhone is turned off. You do, however, need an iPhone to initially setup an Apple Watch, even the cellular version.
- runako 3y ago
  This doesn't match my experience using Apple Watch.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  This isn’t true. I just made a call two days ago from my Watch with ny iPhone being completely dead.
- MichaelZuo 3y ago
  Are you certain? I'm fairly sure I've made calls with my Series 4 cellular when I know the linked iPhone is powered off.
  - tcmart14 3y ago
    I think the missing part from the person's post is not realizing there are variations of the watch. Some watches, like your, yea have cellular. I've got the 2nd gen Apple watch SE and I can't make calls off of it. Although, interesting to know you had it on the series 4. I thought it was only on the newer series 8 and ultra, but I also just got my first apple watch about 4 months ago.
- smugma 3y ago
  No kid has an Apple Watch, no phone (set up on my phone as a Family watch). Texts and calls me daily.
criddell 3y ago
I don't know what DeX is, but if by thin client you mean the computer is somewhere else then I would say that doesn't sound like Apple at all. Apple is the last company that seems to still believe in personal computers on the desk.
- jabroni_salad 3y ago
  DeX lets you connect your phone to a docking station. You get a fairly basic windowed desktop experience. I actually use it to run citrix receiver and connect to the corporate network. hardly ever bring my work laptop home anymore.
  - criddell 3y ago
    Is it way different than using an iPad with an external monitor, keyboard, mouse, disk, midi controller, etc...? Is the key distinction that it's on a phone rather than a tablet?
    - jabroni_salad 3y ago
      In terms of hardware, yes. In terms of software, no. Last time I tried that with an iPad you did not get a true windowed DE. It was okay if you wanted one big app and one sidebar app and a lot of context switching.
      - criddell 3y ago
        For better or worse, iPadOS is moving more in that direction for sure. https://www.theverge.com/23787477/apple-ipados-17-stage-manager-ipad-multitasking https://www.theverge.com/23787477/apple-ipados-17-stage-mana...
        jabroni_salad 3y ago
        oh nice. Hopefully a few iterations from now it'll be really good. I just chose a Surface as my personal laptop last year because of this making ipad less than a perfect all-rounder.
Spooky23 3y ago
Nobody really wants that feature. It’s too niche, even among enterprise customers.
NietTim 3y ago
For this reason I've been, naively, patiently waiting for the first "m1 ipad" to run full mac os trough jailbreaking or something
- cfjgvjh 3y ago
  Native Apple support of the MacOS on the iPad would be really cool, though I suppose it'd never happen considering just how awful the mouse on iPad experience is. It's astonishing compared to how just about everyone loves the trackpad feel on MacOS. It just makes me sad that I have so much computing power in such a small form factor, and software just gimps it, both in capability and experience.
whynotminot 3y ago
The iPhone literally destroyed their most important product at the time, the iPod. Weird take.
- Phrenzy 3y ago
  I've always seen it as a morphing into an iPod that accepts phone calls.
manuelabeledo 3y ago
> They protect their product lines from each other. Is that the case, though. Their product lines overlap significantly in several areas. Yes, you cannot use the Phone app in an iPad, but you can do many of the things a Macbook does, and I would argue that many people would be sufficiently served with an iPad and a keyboard, rather than a Macbook. Pretty much the only other app that you can use with an iPhone but not with an iPad (and neither a Macbook), for technical reasons, is Wallet. I think that Apple does not offer either of those apps in iPads because they are not believed to be practical, given the form factor.
lnxg33k1 3y ago
I agree with you, I used to be a fan of Apple, somehow, at least of the macbook and ipad lines, even if I used linux since I was 12, but then the idea of being dictated what I can or can't do with my stuff, and being used as a mere commercial strategy just made me avoid them, would have loved an ipad used as a flying dev station, even with power limitations, but with at least the ability. I think the HP EliteBook https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c04553487 https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c04553487 is a great tool with Linux on it, and since apart from the hardware, the software is free, I can do whatever I want with it
bgoggin 3y ago
Seriously? Your claim is that Apple is afraid being able to make calls on an iPad would cannibalize iPhone sales? You think this is what's preventing people from walking around talking on iPads? Apple prevented calls on iPads so that AT&T would offer a cheaper cellular plan for iPads. Apple completely cannibalized their iPod business with the iPhone. They have proven over and over that they will cannibalize their own product lines.
- rffn 3y ago
  Network operators could offer cheap data plans without allowing voice over them. Works for the Samsung S-Series tablets. Data is cheap, phone calls are disabled or charged separately. For some users (e.g. elderly) an iPad with its large screen would make a better phone. They don't walk around talking (anymore). Also when wearing headphones, there is no need to lift the phone to the ear. Same goes talking to the watch.
- fsckboy 3y ago
  >Apple completely cannibalized their iPod business with the iPhone no, it's not cannibalization to upsell existing customers to higher margin items
mandeepj 3y ago
> See how they already avoid cannibalization of the iPhone business by preventing the iPad to make phone calls. I think you're a bit out of touch with Apple's design approach. Giving an ability to make phone calls from iPad, like taking photos from it, was already not ridiculous enough. Also, you'd need to have a bag with yourself all the time to carry that slap size device.
Eddy_Viscosity2 3y ago
I would love a tablet that could work as a phone and do calls and texts. Do any good ones exist?

by rffn 3y ago

kalleboo 3y ago

Which is a very sad conclusion because Steve Jobs was very explicit that they had to cannibalize their own products or someone else would.

eviks 3y ago
There are things people say and then there are things people do
- kalleboo 3y ago
  Steve Jobs is dead.
  - trompetenaccoun 3y ago
    What the user probably means is that just because he said this publicly doesn't mean he meant it. Steve Jobs was great at marketing and was well informed on what potential buyers wanted to hear.
scarface_74 3y ago
SJ said a lot of things. There is nothing courageous about cannibalizing an iPod that had an average selling price of $200 and a much smaller market with a phone that is three times more expensive
- zpeti 3y ago
  That's very easy to say in hindsight. Cannibalising a public company's most successful product and profit source is extremely risky, especially for management. There is a reason this is so rare. It goes against many of our ingrained behaviours as humans. So I don't think it's as obvious as you make out.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    It was very obvious even then. Apple was selling 50 million iPods per year at $200 a piece. During the iPhone introduction, SJ said he was aiming to sell 10 million phones to capture 1% of the market the first year. That means even then, the phone market was 1 billion devices a year. That was a much larger market than the stand alone music player market. It was also clear that’s where the market was headed. Phone makers were already starting to sell music capable phones
- kalleboo 3y ago
  The context I was thinking of was the iPad. At the time it was really thought it was completely going to kneecap the portable Mac line (even Apple believed it and invested more in iPad development than Mac development). It was only after Jobs left our mortal coil that the iPad really stagnated in comparison to what the hardware itself was capable of.
dwaite 3y ago
I believe this is specifically not to fear making something better due to potential cannibalization. I suspect they don't feel iPhone apps (at as they are coded by developers today) as a "KVM-style" desktop experience is 'making something better' than the Mac - or even really worth doing.

IggleSniggle 3y ago

See also: cellular Apple Watch unable to make calls/texts without being tethered (over an Internet connection, remotely!) to an iPhone.

endisneigh 3y ago
Cellular Apple Watches can make phone calls even if your iPhone is turned off. You do, however, need an iPhone to initially setup an Apple Watch, even the cellular version.
runako 3y ago
This doesn't match my experience using Apple Watch.
scarface_74 3y ago
This isn’t true. I just made a call two days ago from my Watch with ny iPhone being completely dead.
MichaelZuo 3y ago
Are you certain? I'm fairly sure I've made calls with my Series 4 cellular when I know the linked iPhone is powered off.
- tcmart14 3y ago
  I think the missing part from the person's post is not realizing there are variations of the watch. Some watches, like your, yea have cellular. I've got the 2nd gen Apple watch SE and I can't make calls off of it. Although, interesting to know you had it on the series 4. I thought it was only on the newer series 8 and ultra, but I also just got my first apple watch about 4 months ago.
smugma 3y ago
No kid has an Apple Watch, no phone (set up on my phone as a Family watch). Texts and calls me daily.

criddell 3y ago

I don't know what DeX is, but if by thin client you mean the computer is somewhere else then I would say that doesn't sound like Apple at all. Apple is the last company that seems to still believe in personal computers on the desk.

jabroni_salad 3y ago
DeX lets you connect your phone to a docking station. You get a fairly basic windowed desktop experience. I actually use it to run citrix receiver and connect to the corporate network. hardly ever bring my work laptop home anymore.
- criddell 3y ago
  Is it way different than using an iPad with an external monitor, keyboard, mouse, disk, midi controller, etc...? Is the key distinction that it's on a phone rather than a tablet?
  - jabroni_salad 3y ago
    In terms of hardware, yes. In terms of software, no. Last time I tried that with an iPad you did not get a true windowed DE. It was okay if you wanted one big app and one sidebar app and a lot of context switching.
    - criddell 3y ago
      For better or worse, iPadOS is moving more in that direction for sure. https://www.theverge.com/23787477/apple-ipados-17-stage-manager-ipad-multitasking https://www.theverge.com/23787477/apple-ipados-17-stage-mana...
      - jabroni_salad 3y ago
        oh nice. Hopefully a few iterations from now it'll be really good. I just chose a Surface as my personal laptop last year because of this making ipad less than a perfect all-rounder.

Spooky23 3y ago

Nobody really wants that feature. It’s too niche, even among enterprise customers.

NietTim 3y ago

For this reason I've been, naively, patiently waiting for the first "m1 ipad" to run full mac os trough jailbreaking or something

cfjgvjh 3y ago
Native Apple support of the MacOS on the iPad would be really cool, though I suppose it'd never happen considering just how awful the mouse on iPad experience is. It's astonishing compared to how just about everyone loves the trackpad feel on MacOS. It just makes me sad that I have so much computing power in such a small form factor, and software just gimps it, both in capability and experience.

whynotminot 3y ago

The iPhone literally destroyed their most important product at the time, the iPod. Weird take.

Phrenzy 3y ago
I've always seen it as a morphing into an iPod that accepts phone calls.

manuelabeledo 3y ago

> They protect their product lines from each other. Is that the case, though. Their product lines overlap significantly in several areas. Yes, you cannot use the Phone app in an iPad, but you can do many of the things a Macbook does, and I would argue that many people would be sufficiently served with an iPad and a keyboard, rather than a Macbook. Pretty much the only other app that you can use with an iPhone but not with an iPad (and neither a Macbook), for technical reasons, is Wallet. I think that Apple does not offer either of those apps in iPads because they are not believed to be practical, given the form factor.

lnxg33k1 3y ago

I agree with you, I used to be a fan of Apple, somehow, at least of the macbook and ipad lines, even if I used linux since I was 12, but then the idea of being dictated what I can or can't do with my stuff, and being used as a mere commercial strategy just made me avoid them, would have loved an ipad used as a flying dev station, even with power limitations, but with at least the ability. I think the HP EliteBook https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c04553487 https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c04553487 is a great tool with Linux on it, and since apart from the hardware, the software is free, I can do whatever I want with it

bgoggin 3y ago

Seriously? Your claim is that Apple is afraid being able to make calls on an iPad would cannibalize iPhone sales? You think this is what's preventing people from walking around talking on iPads? Apple prevented calls on iPads so that AT&T would offer a cheaper cellular plan for iPads. Apple completely cannibalized their iPod business with the iPhone. They have proven over and over that they will cannibalize their own product lines.

rffn 3y ago
Network operators could offer cheap data plans without allowing voice over them. Works for the Samsung S-Series tablets. Data is cheap, phone calls are disabled or charged separately. For some users (e.g. elderly) an iPad with its large screen would make a better phone. They don't walk around talking (anymore). Also when wearing headphones, there is no need to lift the phone to the ear. Same goes talking to the watch.
fsckboy 3y ago
>Apple completely cannibalized their iPod business with the iPhone no, it's not cannibalization to upsell existing customers to higher margin items

mandeepj 3y ago

> See how they already avoid cannibalization of the iPhone business by preventing the iPad to make phone calls. I think you're a bit out of touch with Apple's design approach. Giving an ability to make phone calls from iPad, like taking photos from it, was already not ridiculous enough. Also, you'd need to have a bag with yourself all the time to carry that slap size device.

Eddy_Viscosity2 3y ago

I would love a tablet that could work as a phone and do calls and texts. Do any good ones exist?