4 ms·

Interesting, but I gave up as it wandered into conspiracy thinking (and bad physics units). Load control is to keep the lights on and costs down in a system wi

Interesting, but I gave up as it wandered into conspiracy thinking (and bad physics units). Load control is to keep the lights on and costs down in a system with a high penetration of non-callable generation. And because some dolts$ will insist on deliberately ignoring the carrots, some sticks are needed to help ensure the lights don't go out at critical moments. $Sometimes performatively, for their fans/followers. Making the world worse for the rest of us, unnecessarily, for ego and personal profit...

whatwhaaaaat 3y ago
I’d say the only dolts in this mix are those that would let the government tell them when they can wash their clothes.
- bArray 3y ago
  You'll own nothing, eat the bugs, live in darkness, spend your wagey coin and you'll be happy.
scrlk 3y ago
IMO this should be left up to pricing to decide, not legislation. Want to have a firm and interruptible supply? Pay more for your energy, as the grid will require reinforcement to make that happen. Want more people to start flexing their demand to avert load shedding? Pay more, and more people will opt in to having their appliances turn on and off at the command of the system operator.
bArray 3y ago
> And because some dolts [..] You presume to better know somebody's reasoning to do something than they do. Maybe 90 year old Dorothy is using the kettle during the illegal time to make soup, because the heater refuses to turn on - if she could afford to run it even if it did. > [..] some sticks are needed to help ensure the lights don't go out at critical moments. Stopping the lights going out is just one of the reasons this could be used. Another is simply to meet relatively arbitrary net zero goals (+). The energy company may choose to cut your power because you signed up for a fixed deal of £100 per month, and to service you during that time they would have to make a loss. What's really funny is that when these smart meters were originally offered to people, they were sold on the idea of it helping them. There were critiques who were called conspiracy theorists and laughed at, now they turn out to be right. The UK government needs to stay out of my home. (+) Despite your feeling of net zero, somebody or something will decide when you suddenly become unable to use power to meet a goal in that moment, which could be the least useful time possible.
- DamonHD 3y ago
  You presume that I presume. As other responses allude to, many of the grid-responsive actions that would be useful are on the scale of sub-second to minutes, and happen day and night, eg when people may not be awake or near equipment to manage it, or just too fast or frequent to be reasonable to manage with a human in the loop. Auto-pausing the heating of your wash water or water tank for a minute or three when grid frequency falls will likely make no difference to you at all, but drops your grid demand (say) 2kWh ot 3kWh to help the grid quickly stabilise. More such responsive instant load shedding might have avoided the last couple of times that the GB grid had to shed several hundred thousand users entirely for a while. Those users definitely noticed. There are conversely many grid response actions that are on scales where it is reasonable (and maybe optimal) to have humans intervene manually to some degree, such as chosing to do laundry on sunny days when it can be solar powered and line dried at a day scale, and hotter 'maintenance' washes in summer (and not in winter) at a seasonal scale.
  - DamonHD 3y ago
    2kW to 3kW, sorry!

whatwhaaaaat 3y ago

I’d say the only dolts in this mix are those that would let the government tell them when they can wash their clothes.

bArray 3y ago
You'll own nothing, eat the bugs, live in darkness, spend your wagey coin and you'll be happy.

scrlk 3y ago

IMO this should be left up to pricing to decide, not legislation. Want to have a firm and interruptible supply? Pay more for your energy, as the grid will require reinforcement to make that happen. Want more people to start flexing their demand to avert load shedding? Pay more, and more people will opt in to having their appliances turn on and off at the command of the system operator.

bArray 3y ago

> And because some dolts [..] You presume to better know somebody's reasoning to do something than they do. Maybe 90 year old Dorothy is using the kettle during the illegal time to make soup, because the heater refuses to turn on - if she could afford to run it even if it did. > [..] some sticks are needed to help ensure the lights don't go out at critical moments. Stopping the lights going out is just one of the reasons this could be used. Another is simply to meet relatively arbitrary net zero goals (+). The energy company may choose to cut your power because you signed up for a fixed deal of £100 per month, and to service you during that time they would have to make a loss. What's really funny is that when these smart meters were originally offered to people, they were sold on the idea of it helping them. There were critiques who were called conspiracy theorists and laughed at, now they turn out to be right. The UK government needs to stay out of my home. (+) Despite your feeling of net zero, somebody or something will decide when you suddenly become unable to use power to meet a goal in that moment, which could be the least useful time possible.

DamonHD 3y ago
You presume that I presume. As other responses allude to, many of the grid-responsive actions that would be useful are on the scale of sub-second to minutes, and happen day and night, eg when people may not be awake or near equipment to manage it, or just too fast or frequent to be reasonable to manage with a human in the loop. Auto-pausing the heating of your wash water or water tank for a minute or three when grid frequency falls will likely make no difference to you at all, but drops your grid demand (say) 2kWh ot 3kWh to help the grid quickly stabilise. More such responsive instant load shedding might have avoided the last couple of times that the GB grid had to shed several hundred thousand users entirely for a while. Those users definitely noticed. There are conversely many grid response actions that are on scales where it is reasonable (and maybe optimal) to have humans intervene manually to some degree, such as chosing to do laundry on sunny days when it can be solar powered and line dried at a day scale, and hotter 'maintenance' washes in summer (and not in winter) at a seasonal scale.
- DamonHD 3y ago
  2kW to 3kW, sorry!