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Battery was detached from the vehicle?? Are people trying to steal battery packs now, then? - for what other reason would a detached battery be lying next to v

Battery was detached from the vehicle?? Are people trying to steal battery packs now, then? - for what other reason would a detached battery be lying next to vehicles in a car park? (I've always thought that EV battery packs should be standardised, with several easy-ish to replace/upgrade modules per car. But if they make up half the value of the vehicle or so, they also need to be very theft-resistant...)

Neil44 3y ago
Was it being transported or worked on I wonder? Evedently without sufficient care!
jstanley 3y ago
It is probably too early for standardised EV batteries, because we still don't know if there are innovations that will end up being useful but which won't fit whatever standard you come up with.
tempaway12641 3y ago
Battery packs have a lot of innovation in them, its not just a load of batteries lashed together. There's monitoring systems, cooling, balancing. And squeezing more efficiency out of them is very important. So standardisation of EV battery packs is about as likely as having standardised swappable petrol engines.
- bluescrn 3y ago
  The internals of the packs can vary over time, so long as they're a standardised size with standardised connections. Ideally, once a pack is degraded, maybe after a decade, you'll be able to buy less expensive replacements that have more range, or even used packs salvaged from written-off vehicles - rather than scrapping the whole vehicle.
ilyt 3y ago
I'd be more surprised if they didn't. While they are more PITA to steal than cat just because of weight, they are also worth significantly more. > (I've always thought that EV battery packs should be standardised, with several easy-ish to replace/upgrade modules per car. But if they make up half the value of the vehicle or so, they also need to be very theft-resistant...) If you're there to steal few hundred kg battery pack you probably have angle grinder with you. Nothing says "no" to angle grinder.
- lm28469 3y ago
  > Nothing says "no" to angle grinder. I'm pretty sure cutting the wrong part of a car battery would be a big "no", and maybe the last "no" of your life
  - ilyt 3y ago
    The angle grinder doesn't care. The angle grinder grinds. It's the human that's weak here.
- toxik 3y ago
  Just do what Apple does and add a BMS that’s coded to the ECU or so. Can be worked around of course but definitely makes it harder.
  - ilyt 3y ago
    I'd absolutely buy a cheap battery pack that I'd only need to add BMS to.
    - toxik 3y ago
      You are also on Hacker News, most people wouldn’t be. Also do you really want to buy stolen stuff? I wouldn’t. Seems dishonorable.
mcbain 3y ago
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/five-cars-destroyed-at-sydney-airport-after-battery-from-luxury-electric-vehicle-ignites-20230912-p5e43h.html https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/five-cars-destroyed-at-s... “There had been some problem with the car and the battery had been removed, we believe that the car has suffered some mechanical damage which can contribute to a battery breaking down and catching fire without notice. “We don’t have a concern about this broadly, it’s not often that electric cars catch fire.”
dzhiurgis 3y ago
Why would you standardise something that’s meant to outlast entire car?
- bluescrn 3y ago
  Are consumers confident about battery longevity, when most of them have had multiple experiences with phone and laptop batteries being significantly degraded after 2-5 years? And will that claimed longevity be achieved in all conditions (weather/temperature and usage patterns)? - or only in optimum conditions? Some internal combustion vehicles are kept running for several decades, with many replacement parts remaining available. But with non-standard battery packs and software locks it seems that EVs may have planned obsolescence built in, which goes entirely against the 'saving the planet' narrative.
  - dzhiurgis 3y ago
    > phone and laptop batteries being significantly degraded after 2-5 years Which used to be useful lifetime of tech. We should be kinda gracious that we can now have laptops and phones that last nearly a decade (also kinda disappointing because progress slowed down). > Some internal combustion vehicles are kept running for several decades only in places where attention for safety is a joke. other than collectible cars (which btw are now rapidly converted into BEV) these cars are public hazard and would fail yearly safety checks in all progressive countries. > many replacement parts remaining available Thats a function of how popular car was. Tesla's parts are already one of the cheapest, there are tons of super specialised mods purely because they are manufacturing millions of cars per year. > software locks other than disabling high voltage charging due to safety (which I agree might be a bit much but there for a reason - might be even regulatory) - can you list more examples? Tesla salvage market is wild. Crashed Teslas by battery salvagers are snapped in auctions by hundreds of participants (in my small country) just purely to use their battery. > planned obsolescence built in pop media propaganda. we are at a peak of electronics recycling. companies routinely tout using 100% recycled materials. if you don't plan for obsolescence you are basically planning for pollution.

Neil44 3y ago

Was it being transported or worked on I wonder? Evedently without sufficient care!

jstanley 3y ago

It is probably too early for standardised EV batteries, because we still don't know if there are innovations that will end up being useful but which won't fit whatever standard you come up with.

tempaway12641 3y ago

Battery packs have a lot of innovation in them, its not just a load of batteries lashed together. There's monitoring systems, cooling, balancing. And squeezing more efficiency out of them is very important. So standardisation of EV battery packs is about as likely as having standardised swappable petrol engines.

bluescrn 3y ago
The internals of the packs can vary over time, so long as they're a standardised size with standardised connections. Ideally, once a pack is degraded, maybe after a decade, you'll be able to buy less expensive replacements that have more range, or even used packs salvaged from written-off vehicles - rather than scrapping the whole vehicle.

ilyt 3y ago

I'd be more surprised if they didn't. While they are more PITA to steal than cat just because of weight, they are also worth significantly more. > (I've always thought that EV battery packs should be standardised, with several easy-ish to replace/upgrade modules per car. But if they make up half the value of the vehicle or so, they also need to be very theft-resistant...) If you're there to steal few hundred kg battery pack you probably have angle grinder with you. Nothing says "no" to angle grinder.

lm28469 3y ago
> Nothing says "no" to angle grinder. I'm pretty sure cutting the wrong part of a car battery would be a big "no", and maybe the last "no" of your life
- ilyt 3y ago
  The angle grinder doesn't care. The angle grinder grinds. It's the human that's weak here.
toxik 3y ago
Just do what Apple does and add a BMS that’s coded to the ECU or so. Can be worked around of course but definitely makes it harder.
- ilyt 3y ago
  I'd absolutely buy a cheap battery pack that I'd only need to add BMS to.
  - toxik 3y ago
    You are also on Hacker News, most people wouldn’t be. Also do you really want to buy stolen stuff? I wouldn’t. Seems dishonorable.

mcbain 3y ago

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/five-cars-destroyed-at-sydney-airport-after-battery-from-luxury-electric-vehicle-ignites-20230912-p5e43h.html https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/five-cars-destroyed-at-s... “There had been some problem with the car and the battery had been removed, we believe that the car has suffered some mechanical damage which can contribute to a battery breaking down and catching fire without notice. “We don’t have a concern about this broadly, it’s not often that electric cars catch fire.”

dzhiurgis 3y ago

Why would you standardise something that’s meant to outlast entire car?

bluescrn 3y ago
Are consumers confident about battery longevity, when most of them have had multiple experiences with phone and laptop batteries being significantly degraded after 2-5 years? And will that claimed longevity be achieved in all conditions (weather/temperature and usage patterns)? - or only in optimum conditions? Some internal combustion vehicles are kept running for several decades, with many replacement parts remaining available. But with non-standard battery packs and software locks it seems that EVs may have planned obsolescence built in, which goes entirely against the 'saving the planet' narrative.
- dzhiurgis 3y ago
  > phone and laptop batteries being significantly degraded after 2-5 years Which used to be useful lifetime of tech. We should be kinda gracious that we can now have laptops and phones that last nearly a decade (also kinda disappointing because progress slowed down). > Some internal combustion vehicles are kept running for several decades only in places where attention for safety is a joke. other than collectible cars (which btw are now rapidly converted into BEV) these cars are public hazard and would fail yearly safety checks in all progressive countries. > many replacement parts remaining available Thats a function of how popular car was. Tesla's parts are already one of the cheapest, there are tons of super specialised mods purely because they are manufacturing millions of cars per year. > software locks other than disabling high voltage charging due to safety (which I agree might be a bit much but there for a reason - might be even regulatory) - can you list more examples? Tesla salvage market is wild. Crashed Teslas by battery salvagers are snapped in auctions by hundreds of participants (in my small country) just purely to use their battery. > planned obsolescence built in pop media propaganda. we are at a peak of electronics recycling. companies routinely tout using 100% recycled materials. if you don't plan for obsolescence you are basically planning for pollution.