3 ms·

> Intergated 5G Modem. Apple should have a 4G/5G only modem ( Not even 3G ) on MacBook to test out all quirks before it is even used on iPhone. Please no, in a

> Intergated 5G Modem. Apple should have a 4G/5G only modem ( Not even 3G ) on MacBook to test out all quirks before it is even used on iPhone. Please no, in any laptop. Mobile networks evolve faster than the computing hardware, and 5G (as well as 3G and 4G) is somewhat meaningless as 3G/4G/5G operate on different bands on different frequencies in different countries which means laptops will become region locked again. Over the last 12 years, laptop mobile modems have morphed from ugly PCMCIA extension cards through USB dongles through to portable WiFi enabled mobile devices (MiFi devices), 3G has seen a nearly full demise, 4G is nearing one whereas the laptop from 12 years ago can still work irrespective of the mobile network evolution. The MiFi devices seems to be the sweet spot as they decouple the laptop from the mobile network technology, are cheaper and easier to upgrade and also come with an added benefit of allowing multiple devices to connect to the mobile network which results in a better mobile network capacity utilisation as opoposed to each device requiring a separate capacity slot.

Nextgrid 3y ago
Disagreed. The "MiFi" is one more thing you need to keep charged and have to put up with shitty firmware. Region locking isn't a big concern - as far as I know no iPhones are region-locked (the appropriate one might perform better in certain areas, but nobody is outright locking you out?), and Macbooks are already region-specific anyway based on keyboard layouts.
- inkyoto 3y ago
  You do not have to agree, you have to experience it firsthand. I travel on a frequent basis and still run into occasional problems. 6GHz frequency bands on 5G are still not supported outside the US, for example. Granted, 5G is the best we have had so far, 4G was worse, and 3G was even worse. 2G effectively did not exist outside Europe and most Asia, for the US had incompatible TDMA and CDMA networks and only got 2G on a largely unsupported 1.9GHz frequency with exactly one mobile operator, which only the Motorola and a few other handsets could use. To travel to South Korea, one had to acquire a CDMA handset, for the country did not have 2G GSM networks. I am not claiming that MiFi is a perfect solution. It is a solid compromise, though. I am also aware of the firmware problems (my current 5G MiFi device does not even properly support WPA3), but I can live with that for now and will replace the device at a smaller cost compared to a laptop replacement cost. I am okay with that.
ksec 3y ago
1. 4G/5G share 90% of same spectrum in all regions. Region locking and specific spectrum usage was only a thing in 2G/3G era. 2. 5G will last for another 10-15 years as it is not even fully rolled out. That is long enough for a Laptop to get supported. The extreme speed transition of 3G-4G to 5G was because of Smartphone revolution. We are ( arguably ) at peak Smartphone already.
- inkyoto 3y ago
  1. Mobile networks do not operate across the entire spectrum, they operate on frequency bands. The bands are country and mobile operator specific. Then there is the modulation which might vary across each frequency band and can be can frequency division based (for rural areas with a low network capacity but a longer range) or time division based (a shorter range but a higher capacity). On top of that, there is the channel bandwidth that also varies depending on the spectrum channel utilisation. In some areas (or countries), the channel might already be utilised for something else, for example a national train network communication system or by military. Such spectrum channels can't be reallocated, so usually new, country specific, channels are allocated. A capable, laptop integrated modem would have to support them all. Some regional mobile operators have also extended their networks with non-standard frequencies that are locally important but are not supported outside the home turf (Australia's Telstra and Scandinavian mobile operators are prime examples. Telstra even has its own research division, and they have extended the spectrum with non-standard frequencies more than once. They have also licenced their technology to mobile operators overseas on a small scale, e.g. Hong Kong's CSL and to others). You can check the actual spectrum allocation for 4G and 5G at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LTE_frequency_bands https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LTE_frequency_bands and https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/5G_NR_frequency_bands https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/5G_NR_frequency_bands, respectively. It varies from 410MHz to 5.9GHz for 4G and from 600MHz to 71GHz (!) for 5G NR with most 5G frequencies being upward of 2.6GHz – to avoid the interference with 4G. Most importantly, though, the radio wave interference plays the fundamental role. Whilst 4G and 5G might share parts of the spectrum on the paper (which varies wildly for each), they can't share the same channel at once even if the modulation is different. It is not possible to go against the laws of physics and magically have two different standards to share the same radio frequency. Electromagnetic waves will interfere when the channel utilisation goes up. Then there is the supply problem. There is exactly one commercial 5G modem vendor in the entire world. It is Qualcomm. And their modems are not known neither for the power efficiency nor for the low heat dissipation – they are both, power hungry and run stinking hot, when in use. 2. That remains to be seen. 6G is already under development and is undergoing the early testing. It is too far away from a world wide deployment, but it will be in the terahertz spectrum == incompatibility with existing technologies.

Nextgrid 3y ago

Disagreed. The "MiFi" is one more thing you need to keep charged and have to put up with shitty firmware. Region locking isn't a big concern - as far as I know no iPhones are region-locked (the appropriate one might perform better in certain areas, but nobody is outright locking you out?), and Macbooks are already region-specific anyway based on keyboard layouts.

inkyoto 3y ago
You do not have to agree, you have to experience it firsthand. I travel on a frequent basis and still run into occasional problems. 6GHz frequency bands on 5G are still not supported outside the US, for example. Granted, 5G is the best we have had so far, 4G was worse, and 3G was even worse. 2G effectively did not exist outside Europe and most Asia, for the US had incompatible TDMA and CDMA networks and only got 2G on a largely unsupported 1.9GHz frequency with exactly one mobile operator, which only the Motorola and a few other handsets could use. To travel to South Korea, one had to acquire a CDMA handset, for the country did not have 2G GSM networks. I am not claiming that MiFi is a perfect solution. It is a solid compromise, though. I am also aware of the firmware problems (my current 5G MiFi device does not even properly support WPA3), but I can live with that for now and will replace the device at a smaller cost compared to a laptop replacement cost. I am okay with that.

ksec 3y ago

1. 4G/5G share 90% of same spectrum in all regions. Region locking and specific spectrum usage was only a thing in 2G/3G era. 2. 5G will last for another 10-15 years as it is not even fully rolled out. That is long enough for a Laptop to get supported. The extreme speed transition of 3G-4G to 5G was because of Smartphone revolution. We are ( arguably ) at peak Smartphone already.

inkyoto 3y ago
1. Mobile networks do not operate across the entire spectrum, they operate on frequency bands. The bands are country and mobile operator specific. Then there is the modulation which might vary across each frequency band and can be can frequency division based (for rural areas with a low network capacity but a longer range) or time division based (a shorter range but a higher capacity). On top of that, there is the channel bandwidth that also varies depending on the spectrum channel utilisation. In some areas (or countries), the channel might already be utilised for something else, for example a national train network communication system or by military. Such spectrum channels can't be reallocated, so usually new, country specific, channels are allocated. A capable, laptop integrated modem would have to support them all. Some regional mobile operators have also extended their networks with non-standard frequencies that are locally important but are not supported outside the home turf (Australia's Telstra and Scandinavian mobile operators are prime examples. Telstra even has its own research division, and they have extended the spectrum with non-standard frequencies more than once. They have also licenced their technology to mobile operators overseas on a small scale, e.g. Hong Kong's CSL and to others). You can check the actual spectrum allocation for 4G and 5G at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LTE_frequency_bands https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LTE_frequency_bands and https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/5G_NR_frequency_bands https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/5G_NR_frequency_bands, respectively. It varies from 410MHz to 5.9GHz for 4G and from 600MHz to 71GHz (!) for 5G NR with most 5G frequencies being upward of 2.6GHz – to avoid the interference with 4G. Most importantly, though, the radio wave interference plays the fundamental role. Whilst 4G and 5G might share parts of the spectrum on the paper (which varies wildly for each), they can't share the same channel at once even if the modulation is different. It is not possible to go against the laws of physics and magically have two different standards to share the same radio frequency. Electromagnetic waves will interfere when the channel utilisation goes up. Then there is the supply problem. There is exactly one commercial 5G modem vendor in the entire world. It is Qualcomm. And their modems are not known neither for the power efficiency nor for the low heat dissipation – they are both, power hungry and run stinking hot, when in use. 2. That remains to be seen. 6G is already under development and is undergoing the early testing. It is too far away from a world wide deployment, but it will be in the terahertz spectrum == incompatibility with existing technologies.