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I think it's important to keep the subjectivity of your industry in mind. If you worked iPhone support at Apple wouldn't you say more often than not people had

I think it's important to keep the subjectivity of your industry in mind. If you worked iPhone support at Apple wouldn't you say more often than not people had iPhone issues? You may have seen a lot of issues specific to Android because it commands more of the market globally. Or more of the market in your neighborhood. Etc. Android being open source implies that issues are available to the public. Conversely Apple has an NDA protected internal kbase. Which operating procedure LOOKS like fewer problems? Clearly the latter. Which one actually has fewer problems is a more complex question.

telchior 3y ago
He said he worked mobile sales, so I read that as he sold all models of phones to a wide variety of customers. I think a lot of people would nod along with the idea that Android phones eventually have more issues. Certainly, between myself (iPhone user) and my wife (Android) it's her that has to change her phone every 2-3 years with escalating issues toward the end, and me that keeps using the same one for 5-6 with no issue. Actually I'd say the same thing used to apply to Mac vs PC, especially laptops -- the Mac would be the one that keeps ticking basically forever while Windows laptops would encounter some kind of issue. But right now I'm on a 5 year old Windows laptop that works just fine (minus a few minor maintenance issues over the years), and I think that's not terribly uncommon. So it's not like Apple has some unattainable super-power, it's just the current situation in phone land.
- trimethylpurine 3y ago
  Huh. Opposite story for my wife and I. I've been on Pixel/Nexus for many years, no issues. Her iPhones were always dying or restarting unexpectedly until she switched to Pixel. Of course, neither of these stories mean anything in the way of what's better or more reliable. And that was my point. He sold a lot of phones. Did he eliminate bias through some kind of psychological training to ensure he sold a proportion of manufacturers phones in equitable rates and then did he compare those rates to returns? Probably not, right? Subjectivity is more difficult to eliminate than most people think.
  - NoPicklez 3y ago
    Important to point out that my comment wasn't about which device was most popularly sold, but it was around those that needed support. Which wasn't just after sale service but any customer of the telco who needed help. You make a valid point regarding the validity of both of our experiences, but it's just that, one person's experience and shouldn't be taken as gospel. I think most people understand that.
    - trimethylpurine 3y ago
      You've got part of my point. Over time, Apple is gaining market share. Meaning; previously Android had the greater share. That means that the number of old devices are disproportionately Android. Your experience is a product of the shear number of devices. So beyond the obvious point that one person's experience isn't gospel, the frame of reference isn't sound for forming any opinion on those grounds.
      - NoPicklez 3y ago
        Whilst I largely agree, the fact that there might be more older Android devices in circulation, doesn't mean that proportionately Androids didn't have more problems either. It just makes it less likely.
        trimethylpurine 3y ago
        Now you've got my point. Without controls in place, we can't say it's one way or the other.
- NoPicklez 3y ago
  To your first point that's exactly what I did
gumby 3y ago
> If you worked iPhone support at Apple wouldn't you say more often than not people had iPhone issues? You may have seen a lot of issues specific to Android because it commands more of the market globally. That's a fair question. In my experience, I choose to type on a mac because it sucks less than the alternative (used to be alternatives but really there's only two choices any more). On the server side linux for the same reason, but it's still, and presumably never, suitable for a lay audience without significant support. But on the phone side I think apple has moved in recent years to "better" over "less bad". Not incredibly so, but to a significant degree. I tried using a bunch of android (Andy Rubin kept giving me phones to try) and the best of them were adequate -- I would have been satisfied using them had I not had an iphone to go back to. Frankly though Apple has failed to meet the level of fit-for-function of the Palm Pilot. I don't at all mean it would be worth using these days! But at its time it really had a well honed and tuned experience, a testament to Jeff Hawkins' obsession with convenience and usability. Even before they had working hardware he would carry a piece of wood around and walk through the use cases, insisting that nothing should take more than three button presses to accomplish. The iphone is far from there, and getting farther away all the time.
NoPicklez 3y ago
I worked at a national telecommunications company in sales & service in a store. It was a manufacturer agnostic telco where the overwhelming majority of phones in store weren't Apple, as naturally the store also had Sony, Samsung, LG, Nokia, Huawei etc. At the time Apple only really had two flagship phones. Of course you can't take what I say as gospel for many of the reasons you mentioned, but it's my experience.

telchior 3y ago

He said he worked mobile sales, so I read that as he sold all models of phones to a wide variety of customers. I think a lot of people would nod along with the idea that Android phones eventually have more issues. Certainly, between myself (iPhone user) and my wife (Android) it's her that has to change her phone every 2-3 years with escalating issues toward the end, and me that keeps using the same one for 5-6 with no issue. Actually I'd say the same thing used to apply to Mac vs PC, especially laptops -- the Mac would be the one that keeps ticking basically forever while Windows laptops would encounter some kind of issue. But right now I'm on a 5 year old Windows laptop that works just fine (minus a few minor maintenance issues over the years), and I think that's not terribly uncommon. So it's not like Apple has some unattainable super-power, it's just the current situation in phone land.

trimethylpurine 3y ago
Huh. Opposite story for my wife and I. I've been on Pixel/Nexus for many years, no issues. Her iPhones were always dying or restarting unexpectedly until she switched to Pixel. Of course, neither of these stories mean anything in the way of what's better or more reliable. And that was my point. He sold a lot of phones. Did he eliminate bias through some kind of psychological training to ensure he sold a proportion of manufacturers phones in equitable rates and then did he compare those rates to returns? Probably not, right? Subjectivity is more difficult to eliminate than most people think.
- NoPicklez 3y ago
  Important to point out that my comment wasn't about which device was most popularly sold, but it was around those that needed support. Which wasn't just after sale service but any customer of the telco who needed help. You make a valid point regarding the validity of both of our experiences, but it's just that, one person's experience and shouldn't be taken as gospel. I think most people understand that.
  - trimethylpurine 3y ago
    You've got part of my point. Over time, Apple is gaining market share. Meaning; previously Android had the greater share. That means that the number of old devices are disproportionately Android. Your experience is a product of the shear number of devices. So beyond the obvious point that one person's experience isn't gospel, the frame of reference isn't sound for forming any opinion on those grounds.
    - NoPicklez 3y ago
      Whilst I largely agree, the fact that there might be more older Android devices in circulation, doesn't mean that proportionately Androids didn't have more problems either. It just makes it less likely.
      - trimethylpurine 3y ago
        Now you've got my point. Without controls in place, we can't say it's one way or the other.
NoPicklez 3y ago
To your first point that's exactly what I did

gumby 3y ago

> If you worked iPhone support at Apple wouldn't you say more often than not people had iPhone issues? You may have seen a lot of issues specific to Android because it commands more of the market globally. That's a fair question. In my experience, I choose to type on a mac because it sucks less than the alternative (used to be alternatives but really there's only two choices any more). On the server side linux for the same reason, but it's still, and presumably never, suitable for a lay audience without significant support. But on the phone side I think apple has moved in recent years to "better" over "less bad". Not incredibly so, but to a significant degree. I tried using a bunch of android (Andy Rubin kept giving me phones to try) and the best of them were adequate -- I would have been satisfied using them had I not had an iphone to go back to. Frankly though Apple has failed to meet the level of fit-for-function of the Palm Pilot. I don't at all mean it would be worth using these days! But at its time it really had a well honed and tuned experience, a testament to Jeff Hawkins' obsession with convenience and usability. Even before they had working hardware he would carry a piece of wood around and walk through the use cases, insisting that nothing should take more than three button presses to accomplish. The iphone is far from there, and getting farther away all the time.

NoPicklez 3y ago

I worked at a national telecommunications company in sales & service in a store. It was a manufacturer agnostic telco where the overwhelming majority of phones in store weren't Apple, as naturally the store also had Sony, Samsung, LG, Nokia, Huawei etc. At the time Apple only really had two flagship phones. Of course you can't take what I say as gospel for many of the reasons you mentioned, but it's my experience.