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I agree with you that those are normal things for a public transit agency. I felt like the core of the article was that NYC had ignored an established pattern

I agree with you that those are normal things for a public transit agency. I felt like the core of the article was that NYC had ignored an established pattern (outlined in a report[1]) that suggests that, for this to work like they want, they would need to increase non-car ways of getting into and around the city. I also thought the article did a good job of talking about how the legally relevant metrics are focused on financial targets rather than transit targets. I do think this kind of article is hard to write clearly, but I do not think what you said is in conversation with the content of the article. I can see why they are worried that congestion pricing must fund new capital projects (i.e. expansion) instead of the existing system. You didn't mention that in your critique and I'm curious because it feels like a central point of the article. I also do not think this article was exactly criticizing the MTA for overpaying? More than it was noting that it HAD overpaid to situate the reader as to the MTA's current financial situation. [1] https://rpa.org/work/reports/congestion-pricing-in-nyc#key-findings https://rpa.org/work/reports/congestion-pricing-in-nyc#key-f...

crazygringo 3y ago
> for this to work like they want, they would need to increase non-car ways of getting into and around the city NYC already has the most non-car ways of anywhere in the country by a long shot. Subways, trains, buses. Taxis, Ubers, CitiBike. What on earth more improvements do they want?
- fragmede 3y ago
  > Subways, trains, buses. Taxis, Ubers, CitiBike By a long shot? Those, or an equivalent, are pretty standard in all major cities. (Lime/Spin rental scooters are in the same category as rental bicycles, imo)
  - Jcowell 3y ago
    what other city has 24 hour non stop service for subways ? The Subway ‘s operation is not standard in all major cities of the country.
  - drekk 3y ago
    Los Angeles is the closest metropolitan area to me and there's no comparison. You can't easily live in or around Los Angeles without a car. Los Angeles actually has the highest rate of private vehicle ownership for a metropolitan area in the US at ~88%. NYC is at ~45% to give a frame of reference. I agree with you in principle that you can rent a scooter or get an Uber in LA, but it's much more expensive in general to get around. You can blame it entirely on the lower density, but it doesn't change the fact that NYC is the only major city in the US with less than half of residents owning a private vehicle.
    - fragmede 3y ago
      Sorry, I don't count LA as a city. It's endless suburban sprawl. It doesn't have the density to live up to the claim to be a city. I'm not claiming that other cities are NYC. There's only one NYC. But there are cities, even in the US, where there's an urban core that has useful "Subways, trains, buses. Taxis, Ubers, CitiBike" or equivalent. Try: * Seattle * Boston * Chicago * Washington, D.C. * San Francisco * Philadelphia * Baltimore * Denver * Portland * Atlanta * Minneapolis-St. Paul
      - aeturnum 3y ago
        It's not uniformly the case for all LA-area cities, but many of the densest urban areas in the US are in greater Los Angeles[1]. It's the 2nd most dense "metro area" in the US.[2] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population_density https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_b... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Los_Angeles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Los_Angeles
- op00to 3y ago
  Capacity. Trains are packed every morning and afternoon. TUNNELS are packed. There is no excess capacity to move people under the Hudson River.
  - bradleyjg 3y ago
    The trains I take (6th Ave) aren’t especially packed. Pre Covid the Lex line and the L were always awful. Not sure if they’ve gotten back to peak. Even with all that crowding there are still parts of cars that everyone avoids because Adams’ NYPD won’t do its job.
    - op00to 3y ago
      NJ Transit is packed every weekday now that people are back from the beach.
  - crazygringo 3y ago
    Well congestion pricing improves vehicle traffic in tunnels, that's the point. And trains can be ramped up and down mostly in response to demand, no? It's not a question of underlying track capacity, is it? I mean I've never heard of someone driving from NJ to NY instead of taking the train because the train was too full. It's usually the opposite -- they take the train instead of the car because the traffic is too slow.
    - op00to 3y ago
      I am talking about train tunnels, there is literally no more capacity.
      - crazygringo 3y ago
        Ah got it, you're talking specifically about the Hudson. Turns out the new tunnels won't be finished until 2035. Still, congestion pricing seems like the best solution even for right now. Reducing car traffic underneath the Hudson means buses can run faster and we can add more of them, since that's literally the only short-term solution.

crazygringo 3y ago

> for this to work like they want, they would need to increase non-car ways of getting into and around the city NYC already has the most non-car ways of anywhere in the country by a long shot. Subways, trains, buses. Taxis, Ubers, CitiBike. What on earth more improvements do they want?

fragmede 3y ago
> Subways, trains, buses. Taxis, Ubers, CitiBike By a long shot? Those, or an equivalent, are pretty standard in all major cities. (Lime/Spin rental scooters are in the same category as rental bicycles, imo)
- Jcowell 3y ago
  what other city has 24 hour non stop service for subways ? The Subway ‘s operation is not standard in all major cities of the country.
- drekk 3y ago
  Los Angeles is the closest metropolitan area to me and there's no comparison. You can't easily live in or around Los Angeles without a car. Los Angeles actually has the highest rate of private vehicle ownership for a metropolitan area in the US at ~88%. NYC is at ~45% to give a frame of reference. I agree with you in principle that you can rent a scooter or get an Uber in LA, but it's much more expensive in general to get around. You can blame it entirely on the lower density, but it doesn't change the fact that NYC is the only major city in the US with less than half of residents owning a private vehicle.
  - fragmede 3y ago
    Sorry, I don't count LA as a city. It's endless suburban sprawl. It doesn't have the density to live up to the claim to be a city. I'm not claiming that other cities are NYC. There's only one NYC. But there are cities, even in the US, where there's an urban core that has useful "Subways, trains, buses. Taxis, Ubers, CitiBike" or equivalent. Try: * Seattle * Boston * Chicago * Washington, D.C. * San Francisco * Philadelphia * Baltimore * Denver * Portland * Atlanta * Minneapolis-St. Paul
    - aeturnum 3y ago
      It's not uniformly the case for all LA-area cities, but many of the densest urban areas in the US are in greater Los Angeles[1]. It's the 2nd most dense "metro area" in the US.[2] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population_density https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_b... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Los_Angeles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Los_Angeles
op00to 3y ago
Capacity. Trains are packed every morning and afternoon. TUNNELS are packed. There is no excess capacity to move people under the Hudson River.
- bradleyjg 3y ago
  The trains I take (6th Ave) aren’t especially packed. Pre Covid the Lex line and the L were always awful. Not sure if they’ve gotten back to peak. Even with all that crowding there are still parts of cars that everyone avoids because Adams’ NYPD won’t do its job.
  - op00to 3y ago
    NJ Transit is packed every weekday now that people are back from the beach.
- crazygringo 3y ago
  Well congestion pricing improves vehicle traffic in tunnels, that's the point. And trains can be ramped up and down mostly in response to demand, no? It's not a question of underlying track capacity, is it? I mean I've never heard of someone driving from NJ to NY instead of taking the train because the train was too full. It's usually the opposite -- they take the train instead of the car because the traffic is too slow.
  - op00to 3y ago
    I am talking about train tunnels, there is literally no more capacity.
    - crazygringo 3y ago
      Ah got it, you're talking specifically about the Hudson. Turns out the new tunnels won't be finished until 2035. Still, congestion pricing seems like the best solution even for right now. Reducing car traffic underneath the Hudson means buses can run faster and we can add more of them, since that's literally the only short-term solution.