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I had a discussion with my church group about this and it was absolutely fascinating. On the one hand they welcomed the ubiquitous observation and judgement of

I had a discussion with my church group about this and it was absolutely fascinating. On the one hand they welcomed the ubiquitous observation and judgement of all people, because they thought that would make it easier to control people's behavior. But also someone pointed out that is what the anti-christ would do. In the end there wasn't any real consensus on whether or not mass surveillance was good or bad.

seabass-labrax 3y ago
Did the church group not already believe there to be an entity capable of ubiquitous observation and judgement of everyone, that as an added bonus happens to be entirely benevolent? I'm not sure how any human-made competition in this department could be beneficial.
- wkat4242 3y ago
  This is indeed a big paradox in organized religions. When I was young my parents wanted me to learn about religions so I could make my own choice about which to follow. But I was constantly like "wtf how does this make sense???". And disruptive in class :) They had to take me out of Sunday school. Another thing I never understood is predestination in calvinist religions, which are big in Holland. They believe it's already decided whether you go to heaven or hell, regardless of your actions during your life. So how would you live your life? Personally I'd go for maximum enjoyment because whatever happens is already decided. But no, they're very strict and regimental in general. Never understood why. But of course I did only have Sunday school for a short while :)
  - ben_w 3y ago
    > Another thing I never understood is predestination in calvinist religions, which are big in Holland. They believe it's already decided whether you go to heaven or hell, regardless of your actions during your life. > So how would you live your life? Personally I'd go for maximum enjoyment because whatever happens is already decided. But no, they're very strict and regimental in general. Never understood why. But of course I did only have Sunday school for a short while :) I heard about the predestination thing well before I heard of Newcomb's paradox, but now I realise this is basically the same as "one box, or both boxes?"
canadiantim 3y ago
That's terrifying that people thought it was potentially good
quickthrowman 3y ago
Why do your fellow congregants want to control the behavior of others? Why can’t they just focus on their own lives and their own community instead of what other people outside of their community are doing?
- mc32 3y ago
  I think they implied observing the behavior of fellow congregants not outsiders. Not sure if that makes it any better. But I think that’s what the poster meant. That said it is definitely what any competent authoritarian would want.
- beardedwizard 3y ago
  This assumes quite a bit about the group. Is it wrong to discuss topics like this and share different views? Why do you want to control this groups private discussions?
  - vore 3y ago
    I don't think the parent is controlling the discussion, or really even saying it's wrong to discuss this and share their views. But, by the same token, the parent is also allowed to express their concern about people who do hold these views here.
  - quickthrowman 3y ago
    You are correct that I am making assumptions, I’m assuming this group wants to control the behaviors of people outside of their religious group which may not be the case. I don’t want to control their discussion, it’s fine to discuss things and share different views. I want to understand why a group of people would welcome a panopticon because it would make people easier to control.
    - beardedwizard 3y ago
      I agree it's a bit of a strange dialogue at church, but there is an emphasis on pius behavior both in public and private so I would guess this is the line of thinking they were going down. I would grant the other commenter that God doesn't need 6g to see you, if you believe in that.
akomtu 3y ago
Last time it was the end of the Aries age, when Nero played the role of the antichrist. Today we're approaching the of the end of the Pisces' age, and Nero 2.0, fixed and engrossed, will be equipped with brain reading devices (the future of neuralink), machine intelligence and human-like machines. Thinking in private will be possible only at the abstract level, as all the internal monologue will be carefully recorded and analyzed. He will rise to power on the wings of nihilist technocrats, and will institute the law for those who want to be free, and freedom for those who want to be free from the law.

seabass-labrax 3y ago

Did the church group not already believe there to be an entity capable of ubiquitous observation and judgement of everyone, that as an added bonus happens to be entirely benevolent? I'm not sure how any human-made competition in this department could be beneficial.

wkat4242 3y ago
This is indeed a big paradox in organized religions. When I was young my parents wanted me to learn about religions so I could make my own choice about which to follow. But I was constantly like "wtf how does this make sense???". And disruptive in class :) They had to take me out of Sunday school. Another thing I never understood is predestination in calvinist religions, which are big in Holland. They believe it's already decided whether you go to heaven or hell, regardless of your actions during your life. So how would you live your life? Personally I'd go for maximum enjoyment because whatever happens is already decided. But no, they're very strict and regimental in general. Never understood why. But of course I did only have Sunday school for a short while :)
- ben_w 3y ago
  > Another thing I never understood is predestination in calvinist religions, which are big in Holland. They believe it's already decided whether you go to heaven or hell, regardless of your actions during your life. > So how would you live your life? Personally I'd go for maximum enjoyment because whatever happens is already decided. But no, they're very strict and regimental in general. Never understood why. But of course I did only have Sunday school for a short while :) I heard about the predestination thing well before I heard of Newcomb's paradox, but now I realise this is basically the same as "one box, or both boxes?"

canadiantim 3y ago

That's terrifying that people thought it was potentially good

quickthrowman 3y ago

Why do your fellow congregants want to control the behavior of others? Why can’t they just focus on their own lives and their own community instead of what other people outside of their community are doing?

mc32 3y ago
I think they implied observing the behavior of fellow congregants not outsiders. Not sure if that makes it any better. But I think that’s what the poster meant. That said it is definitely what any competent authoritarian would want.
beardedwizard 3y ago
This assumes quite a bit about the group. Is it wrong to discuss topics like this and share different views? Why do you want to control this groups private discussions?
- vore 3y ago
  I don't think the parent is controlling the discussion, or really even saying it's wrong to discuss this and share their views. But, by the same token, the parent is also allowed to express their concern about people who do hold these views here.
- quickthrowman 3y ago
  You are correct that I am making assumptions, I’m assuming this group wants to control the behaviors of people outside of their religious group which may not be the case. I don’t want to control their discussion, it’s fine to discuss things and share different views. I want to understand why a group of people would welcome a panopticon because it would make people easier to control.
  - beardedwizard 3y ago
    I agree it's a bit of a strange dialogue at church, but there is an emphasis on pius behavior both in public and private so I would guess this is the line of thinking they were going down. I would grant the other commenter that God doesn't need 6g to see you, if you believe in that.

akomtu 3y ago

Last time it was the end of the Aries age, when Nero played the role of the antichrist. Today we're approaching the of the end of the Pisces' age, and Nero 2.0, fixed and engrossed, will be equipped with brain reading devices (the future of neuralink), machine intelligence and human-like machines. Thinking in private will be possible only at the abstract level, as all the internal monologue will be carefully recorded and analyzed. He will rise to power on the wings of nihilist technocrats, and will institute the law for those who want to be free, and freedom for those who want to be free from the law.