5 ms·

Those Christians are also against abortion and homosexuality, but they've had far less success on those topics - school prayer was removed, and replaced with LG

Those Christians are also against abortion and homosexuality, but they've had far less success on those topics - school prayer was removed, and replaced with LGBT flags.

acdha 3y ago
Uh, did you miss the last couple of years where they got a huge ruling allowing them to criminalize abortion, protect religious activities by public employees on the job, laws to ban books, and have been successfully using threats of terrorism to shut down LGBQT events? The only reason there isn’t mandatory school prayer is because they’d have to agree on whose version to enshrine.
- SenAnder 3y ago
  Their success in these areas is at best contested and limited - abortion is legal in the vast majority of US states [1] and the US army officially endorses LGBT pride parades [2,3]. It is not remotely comparable to the decades long, unquestioned bipartisan support of Israel. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_law_in_the_United_States_by_state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_law_in_the_United_Sta... [2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/us-armed-forces-color-guard-to-march-in-gay-pride-parade-in-dc-called-a-first-nationwide/2014/06/05/32955202-ec26-11e3-b98c-72cef4a00499_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/us-armed-fo... [3] https://americanmilitarynews.com/2022/06/heres-how-us-military-kicked-off-pride-month-on-social-media-today/ https://americanmilitarynews.com/2022/06/heres-how-us-milita...
ethanbond 3y ago
Sorry is the suggestion here that if a certain constituency is not successful across all of its agenda items, then it surely couldn't be behind the success of some of its agenda items?
- SenAnder 3y ago
  No. The suggestion is that there is a reason for this variance of success. The reason being that they share this agenda item with another group, explaining why they triumph here while they have only middling success elsewhere. In your own words: We don’t really need to look for a single cause. All of these things are happening and interacting with each other. - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37446682 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37446682 It's a simple concept - you understood it perfectly well when the topic was different. Why do you suddenly find it hard to grasp?
  - ethanbond 3y ago
    Uh huh... well I'm open to good reasons for this. All the ones that you've mentioned seem like run-of-the-mill anti-semitic conspiracy stuff: they're overrepresented in the current White House admin (an astounding 34% of a body that has unknown/unnamed/questionable impact on US policy regarding Israel), the Federal Reserve Chair has been held by Jewish folks disproportionately (relevant how?), the President's children are marrying Jewish folks (relevant how?). Now, if you came out saying, "AIPAC is an extremely powerful lobbying group that lobbies for pro-Israel bills and foreign aid," you'd definitely get credit for that. Or "ADL is extremely proactive in 'managing speech' around Israel throughout American culture," you'd get credit for that too. But no, "Jews are relatively overrepresented yet still clear minorities in positions which are not obviously relevant to US policy or cultural attitudes toward Israel" doesn't hold much explanatory power.
    - SenAnder 3y ago
      Government staff and cabinet [1] and 50% of all donations to Democrats, and 25% to Republicans [2], are not obviously relevant to US policy? [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37473807 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37473807 - Despite your "clear minorities" phrasing, at 7/26 cabinet positions, Jews are the largest group, followed by gentile Whites at 6, Blacks at 5, and Latinos at 3. [2] https://www.jpost.com/US-Elections/US-Jews-contribute-half-of-all-donations-to-the-Democratic-party-468774 https://www.jpost.com/US-Elections/US-Jews-contribute-half-o...

Those Christians are also against abortion and homosexuality, but they've had far less success on those topics - school prayer was removed, and replaced with LGBT flags.

acdha 3y ago

Uh, did you miss the last couple of years where they got a huge ruling allowing them to criminalize abortion, protect religious activities by public employees on the job, laws to ban books, and have been successfully using threats of terrorism to shut down LGBQT events? The only reason there isn’t mandatory school prayer is because they’d have to agree on whose version to enshrine.

SenAnder 3y ago
Their success in these areas is at best contested and limited - abortion is legal in the vast majority of US states [1] and the US army officially endorses LGBT pride parades [2,3]. It is not remotely comparable to the decades long, unquestioned bipartisan support of Israel. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_law_in_the_United_States_by_state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_law_in_the_United_Sta... [2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/us-armed-forces-color-guard-to-march-in-gay-pride-parade-in-dc-called-a-first-nationwide/2014/06/05/32955202-ec26-11e3-b98c-72cef4a00499_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/us-armed-fo... [3] https://americanmilitarynews.com/2022/06/heres-how-us-military-kicked-off-pride-month-on-social-media-today/ https://americanmilitarynews.com/2022/06/heres-how-us-milita...

ethanbond 3y ago

Sorry is the suggestion here that if a certain constituency is not successful across all of its agenda items, then it surely couldn't be behind the success of some of its agenda items?

SenAnder 3y ago
No. The suggestion is that there is a reason for this variance of success. The reason being that they share this agenda item with another group, explaining why they triumph here while they have only middling success elsewhere. In your own words: We don’t really need to look for a single cause. All of these things are happening and interacting with each other. - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37446682 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37446682 It's a simple concept - you understood it perfectly well when the topic was different. Why do you suddenly find it hard to grasp?
- ethanbond 3y ago
  Uh huh... well I'm open to good reasons for this. All the ones that you've mentioned seem like run-of-the-mill anti-semitic conspiracy stuff: they're overrepresented in the current White House admin (an astounding 34% of a body that has unknown/unnamed/questionable impact on US policy regarding Israel), the Federal Reserve Chair has been held by Jewish folks disproportionately (relevant how?), the President's children are marrying Jewish folks (relevant how?). Now, if you came out saying, "AIPAC is an extremely powerful lobbying group that lobbies for pro-Israel bills and foreign aid," you'd definitely get credit for that. Or "ADL is extremely proactive in 'managing speech' around Israel throughout American culture," you'd get credit for that too. But no, "Jews are relatively overrepresented yet still clear minorities in positions which are not obviously relevant to US policy or cultural attitudes toward Israel" doesn't hold much explanatory power.
  - SenAnder 3y ago
    Government staff and cabinet [1] and 50% of all donations to Democrats, and 25% to Republicans [2], are not obviously relevant to US policy? [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37473807 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37473807 - Despite your "clear minorities" phrasing, at 7/26 cabinet positions, Jews are the largest group, followed by gentile Whites at 6, Blacks at 5, and Latinos at 3. [2] https://www.jpost.com/US-Elections/US-Jews-contribute-half-of-all-donations-to-the-Democratic-party-468774 https://www.jpost.com/US-Elections/US-Jews-contribute-half-o...