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The average car in Germany is making two trips per day, 15km each: https://umwelt-fragen.de/durchschnittliche-autostrecke-in-deutschland/ https://umwelt-fragen.

by tfourb 3y ago

The average car in Germany is making two trips per day, 15km each: https://umwelt-fragen.de/durchschnittliche-autostrecke-in-deutschland/ https://umwelt-fragen.de/durchschnittliche-autostrecke-in-de... So more or less a very typical commute. My 2016 Nissan Leaf could do this daily drive for 5 days without recharging, today's model's can do half a month of this before the battery is empty. Again: your needs might be on the extreme end and not suited to an EV (currently) but you are the absolute exception. This is not theorizing, it has been well studied and established.

b112 3y ago
This is not theorizing, it has been well studied and established. For a densely populated country such as Germany, you have provided one study which speaks of averages. Of course, this doesn't show the spread of that average. And of course, it is ridiculous to presume this is normal, as we all know how densely packed Germany is. You are trying to claim that one of the outliers, that is, German driving habits, is an average!
- tfourb 3y ago
  In 2017, the average US household made 5.1 daily vehicle trips with a length of 9.6 miles: https://www.bts.gov/content/average-annual-pmt-vmt-person-trips-and-trip-length-trip-purpose https://www.bts.gov/content/average-annual-pmt-vmt-person-tr... This is more than the average German car drives daily, but still perfectly manageable for modern (or even 5 year old) EVs. Even assuming an EV can't be charged anywhere, it could still handle 6 days worth of these trips. Even if you commute 300+ miles daily, you could probably spend 20 minutes per trip at a public charger. Again, maybe this isn't for you. That is fine. But EVs are perfectly suitable for the vast majority of car users and it would be up to you at this point to disprove that statement.
  - b112 3y ago
    There are people who drive their car once a week, to get groceries. There are people who live 100km from work. As I said prior, what is the spread? And beyond that, if someone drives very little for 8 months, then drives a lot for 4 months, which happens a lot (kids, summer, vacations, cabins in the summer)... Many people have range anxiety. People keep saying it's silly, and keep explaining why. How about you just realise, instead, people with range anxiety aren't morons, and 100% have made a valid assessment?
    - tfourb 3y ago
      How about you provide some data instead of anecdotes. You requested the same from me and I provided. Of course people aren't "morons" and I never said as much. But people generally do what they are used to and what trusted authorities (and I use that term deliberately loosely) tell them what is ok. Nobody has time to research every little aspect of their lives in-depth to make a completely informed decision. So if people like you are telling everyone who will listen "many/most people will not be served well by an EV," that has consequences, the same way as if I would tell people "there is no justification whatsoever to drive an ICE" (which I'm explicitly not doing). I've looked into this quite a bit and all data I can find points to EVs being a smart choice for most people if they intend to buy a new car or if they can find a suitable used one (the market availability for the latter is still small). It should be the natural choice if there is not some special circumstance in your life (as seems to be in yours).

by tfourb 3y ago

b112 3y ago

This is not theorizing, it has been well studied and established. For a densely populated country such as Germany, you have provided one study which speaks of averages. Of course, this doesn't show the spread of that average. And of course, it is ridiculous to presume this is normal, as we all know how densely packed Germany is. You are trying to claim that one of the outliers, that is, German driving habits, is an average!

tfourb 3y ago
In 2017, the average US household made 5.1 daily vehicle trips with a length of 9.6 miles: https://www.bts.gov/content/average-annual-pmt-vmt-person-trips-and-trip-length-trip-purpose https://www.bts.gov/content/average-annual-pmt-vmt-person-tr... This is more than the average German car drives daily, but still perfectly manageable for modern (or even 5 year old) EVs. Even assuming an EV can't be charged anywhere, it could still handle 6 days worth of these trips. Even if you commute 300+ miles daily, you could probably spend 20 minutes per trip at a public charger. Again, maybe this isn't for you. That is fine. But EVs are perfectly suitable for the vast majority of car users and it would be up to you at this point to disprove that statement.
- b112 3y ago
  There are people who drive their car once a week, to get groceries. There are people who live 100km from work. As I said prior, what is the spread? And beyond that, if someone drives very little for 8 months, then drives a lot for 4 months, which happens a lot (kids, summer, vacations, cabins in the summer)... Many people have range anxiety. People keep saying it's silly, and keep explaining why. How about you just realise, instead, people with range anxiety aren't morons, and 100% have made a valid assessment?
  - tfourb 3y ago
    How about you provide some data instead of anecdotes. You requested the same from me and I provided. Of course people aren't "morons" and I never said as much. But people generally do what they are used to and what trusted authorities (and I use that term deliberately loosely) tell them what is ok. Nobody has time to research every little aspect of their lives in-depth to make a completely informed decision. So if people like you are telling everyone who will listen "many/most people will not be served well by an EV," that has consequences, the same way as if I would tell people "there is no justification whatsoever to drive an ICE" (which I'm explicitly not doing). I've looked into this quite a bit and all data I can find points to EVs being a smart choice for most people if they intend to buy a new car or if they can find a suitable used one (the market availability for the latter is still small). It should be the natural choice if there is not some special circumstance in your life (as seems to be in yours).