7 ms·

I suffer from hypertension (which pushed as high as 170/120) and went through a period where I was measuring my blood pressure many times a day to try to essent

I suffer from hypertension (which pushed as high as 170/120) and went through a period where I was measuring my blood pressure many times a day to try to essentially hack what the problem was to try to find a natural solution. What I learned is that, for me, -salt intake had zero impact -coffee had no impact -stress level had almost no impact -alcohol had no impact -exercise / activity levels had no impact The single and only controllable factor I could find, short of drugs, was that if I was cold my blood pressure spiked significantly. I had much higher BP in the winter than in the summer, and could improve it by wearing layers, gloves, etc. My body decided to go full ham on blood pressure and it was destroying my kidneys. I would be constantly annoyed by the sound of my own heartbeat doing things like trying to sleep. Telmisartan + Caduet (which is amolodipine + lipitor) and now my blood pressure averages 100/60. And courtesy of the lipitor my cholesterol and triglycerides dropped 60%, from high to normal. Many thanks to the very brilliant people who work in that field and developed those drugs. Anyways, thanks for coming to my TED talk on the magic of modern medicine.

BaculumMeumEst 3y ago
Wow, that sounds like quite an ordeal. Glad you landed okay! I had no idea medication could have that strong of an effect. I also have been checking my levels a little obsessively, unsuccessfully trying to find ways to drop them. And like you, I noticed that I spike during cold weather. I’m probably particularly sensitive because I have very low body fat.
- manmal 3y ago
  You probably tried potassium chloride/bicarbonate already?
  - BaculumMeumEst 3y ago
    I just tried upping dietary potassium with more bananas and avocados and reducing sodium, haven’t looked in to potassium chloride/bicarbonate
    - manmal 3y ago
      Supplementing it is totally different in my experience.
hwillis 3y ago
Raynauds?
- llm_nerd 3y ago
  Secondary Raynaud's absolutely. In any below room temperature setting my fingers would be incredibly cold to the point of being debilitating. I ended up being a glove wearer in situations where it looked pretty goofy. This has dramatically improved/disappeared under the medication listed above.
  - url00 3y ago
    Wow, it sounds so familiar to myself! I have all the same symptoms and went down the path of testing BP and blood glucose with similar results. How did you get the doctor to prescribe the drugs? Or was it a pretty straightforward diagnosis?
    - hwillis 3y ago
      Definitely does not sound straightforward given all the things they tested and excluded. It also very atypical and medicating specifically for this would be unusual. That said it sure sounds like it perfectly treats the root problem. If you have symptoms like Raynauds and POTS (note that POTS can be hard to demonstrate, so may be less convincing to a doctor) then Amlodipine or similar may be helpful. If you take it and you feel lightheaded when standing up, or have trouble with exercise or fatigue, you probably don't need it and it isn't good for you. You may have more consistently high blood pressure rather than transient spikes if you don't have POTS, or if you don't react immediately to cold temperatures. In that case an angiotensin blocker like Telmisartan may help. It can take weeks to become effective, vs Amlodipine should show effects in just a few days. If you have high blood pressure then just telling your doctor you want Amlodipine or something will probably be enough- convincing insurance will be harder. Amlodipine can be used off-label for Raynauds. If you don't have particularly high blood pressure and haven't systematically tried to exclude causes it will be harder to convince your doctor. They might let you try it for a bit to see if it helps, and the generic isn't too expensive.
ungruntled 3y ago
Myself being someone who suspects that they have high blood pressure (based on infrequent measurement), would you mind sharing if you had any recurring symptoms (outside of hearing heartbeat) when your blood pressure was at its peak?
- rapfaria 3y ago
  Pain on the back of the head constantly, specially at the end of the day. Been on Olmesartan since then and couldn't be happier
  - zy0n911 3y ago
    This exact symptom literally happened to me a couple of months ago. It was the kinda pain that started in one shoulder and rounded itself up into my head and front temple, and it _always_ started in the early evening. After doing a bit of research I got myself a monitor, and sure enough my readings one between 150-170/90ish. I'm also a type 1 diabetic to add to it.
- llm_nerd 3y ago
  My initial decision to seek treatment was recurring massive migraines that would wake me up in the middle of the night and last for hours. I had known that I had high blood pressure but didn't really track it closely at all, always attributing the few really high readings I did get to white coat syndrome (which is a very real, but it also can be an easy dismissal as well). During one of those migraine sessions I hopped on Amazon and ordered a unit. It came and I was sure it was defective because it kept measuring 170+ / 120+, which seemed impossible. A few days later I stopped by a pharmacy with one of the big units, and it read the same thing. So I visited my doctor. He put me on 5mg of amolodipine and it did very close to nothing. Then it was upped to 10mg and still little benefit. It was the addition of telmisartan that completely changed everything for me. The effect was overwhelming. It's hard for me to really identify the symptoms because I lived with it, I suspect, for many years. It was my norm. I will say this: at my current blood pressure I constantly feel way more relaxed, physically. Like my body doesn't feel in a constant fight state.
itissid 3y ago
> I would be constantly annoyed by the sound of my own heartbeat doing things like trying to sleep. Wait what? explain more please.
- llm_nerd 3y ago
  Pulsatile tinnitus (didn't know this name before but just looked it up), which is when blood pressure is so high that in quiet you hear your own heartbeat and the whooshing of blood in your veins.
  - bradknowles 3y ago
    I periodically have that, plus regular tinnitus. PT is the one thing so far that I haven't been able to get fixed with the four different high blood pressure medications that I'm currently on.
- hwillis 3y ago
  Ever run real hard and felt your heartbeat in your ears? Like that but always. It can also happen if you have valve or other heart defects that cause enlargement, but that isn't loud in your ears. It's just so loud in your chest that you can hear it. Sometimes other people can as well.
aantix 3y ago
What's your potassium level? Potassium relaxes the walls of the blood vessels. It's a counterbalance to sodium. Doctors will say 3.5 is fine, but there are several studies demonstrating that as you approach 4.5, the risk of cardiac events drop. Doctors get very tense about potassium supplementation in fear of hyperkalemia. But the RDA for potassium use to be ~4200mg. I'm guessing most don't remotely approach the new or old RDA. If you're taking potassium sparing medications, things are further complicated. K levels would have to be checked more often. I supplement with potassium citrate. My blood pressure has normalized.
- llm_nerd 3y ago
  4.5 mmol/L. Coincidentally just got a blood test six days ago (this is in Canada and Lifelabs lets you see your own results). I don't go out of my way to consume potassium at this point, but my potassium has been 4.5 steady for all the tests I've gotten over the past year. My sodium has been rock solid at 139 mmol/L as well. I didn't add it as one of my listed items, but I did try supplementing with potassium before starting with medication and for me it wasn't beneficial, though it certainly would be for people with deficiencies.
- aantix 3y ago
  Hyperaldosteronism. If someone has a consistently low potassium level, you should see an endocrinologist and get tested for Hyperaldosteronism. Surplus aldosterone causes the body to retain more salt, which in turn increase blood pressure. Consistently low potassium, early onset of hypertension, taking three or more BP medications (one of which is a diuretic), all red flags. Hyperaldosteronism should be pursued. I had my left adrenal gland taken out to address it.
- hwillis 3y ago
  Potassium and sodium are also excreted together, so decreasing sodium/increasing potassium typically results in beneficial impacts on the other. > Doctors get very tense about potassium supplementation in fear of hyperkalemia. Supplementing with potassium is not recommended because it's not very effective. 99 mg of potassium citrate gives you only 38 grams of potassium- *you need ~100 pills to get your daily value!* You will see much better results from changing your diet to include more potato (note: 1/4 of the potassium is in the skin), beans, and spinach (although a lot of spinach- 10oz has as much as a large potato). One large potato can give you 900 mg of potassium.
eddy_chan 3y ago
Thanks for sharing publicly. May I ask if the Caduet has any side effects? I'm going through a similar issue. I know that my problem is alcohol, being overweight and middle age (40+). I'm also on Telmisartan which takes it down from 170/100 to about 135/85 on a good day which is still too high for my liking. I might try asking the doc for dual therapy on my next visit and Caduet sounds like a good candidate. My cholesterol also on the high side just outside of normal range! I know I need to lose 20-25lbs but I can't see it happening because of a combo of dad/work life.
- llm_nerd 3y ago
  >I know that my problem is alcohol, being overweight and middle age The middle-aged part for sure, but I don't drink, I'm an ideal weight and have a mid to high level of fitness -- high cholesterol and a super high BP before medication. Sometimes it just be the way it is. Caduet comes with a list of warnings, primarily courtesy of the Lipitor (atorvastatin) component. Periodic bloodwork is necessary to make sure there isn't liver damage occurring, etc. I've endured zero side effects of any sort, and my bloodwork has been stellar. With a 10/20 caduet (which means 10mg amlodipine / 20mg atorvastatin) my triglycerides fell from 2.63 to 1.06, cholesterol from 6.33 to 3.64, LDL from 4.23 to 2.2. Was super surprised at the scale of the improvements.
sph 3y ago
Mmm.. I have been measuring my blood pressure for 5 years, twice a day, and I can't say I agree with you. - Coffee increases systolic by 15 mmHg for 6 hours, so does smoking. - Lisdexamphetamine (I am diagnosed ADHD) decreases BP by 10 mmHg - Good sleep for 5+ consecutive days decreases BP. One day isn't enough. - Rebound hypertension when forgetting my BP meds is a thing. +10 mmHg the next day. - Low carb diet decreases BP steadily after the first week or so, especially if your metabolism is out of whack (understandable due to the deleterious effect of fructose on nitric oxide production) - Amateur BP readings (wrong time of day, single measurement, not relaxed enough) can add 30 mmHg easily. Readings taken at the GP's office are worthless for this reason. My advice is measure every 3 minutes until your BP measurement stabilises. The correct reading is the lowest. Sometimes you need 15 minutes to reset to baseline. - Also important is the delta between systolic and diastolic. Mine is around 40 mmHg, if it's higher than that, it's an indicator of a stress peak (bad sleep, bad day, overwhelmed) that usually resolves after a couple days.
- llm_nerd 3y ago
  Many people have very different responses to stimuli: Some people see a spike from salt. Many don't. Some see a spike from coffee, while others actually see a decline! I merely gave my own personal observations from my own rigorous monitoring/hacking regime. I found no "do this and improve nn mmHg" simple solution, beyond the stated observation about avoiding coldness. I have zero reason to disbelieve your own observations about your own carbon machine, however. Some people will be like me, many others won't, but the real lesson is that there are no hard and fast quick fixes.
  - sph 3y ago
    Certainly, but I'd like to see the methodology of your experiments if you're able to say that a stimulant like coffee doesn't do anything, nor exercise. It might not do anything in the short term, but I dare you to drink 3x your daily coffee intake and see if you can't see any change, or to increase/quit your fitness routine and whether it doesn't do anything over a year. I have tracked by BP over 50 kg of weight change, and BP correlates really nicely with fitness level, stress, etc. even though trends are visible over months, not hours. There certainly are no quick fixes, apart from taking a BP pill (I take telmisartan+amlodipine, the latter replacing a diuretic that made me drier than the Sahara desert)
hedora 3y ago
So, my heart was pounding and erratic at night, and my blood pressure would spike at random intervals. The root cause was that I moved to a 2000’ higher elevation, and was dehydrated. Since winter air is lower humidity, I suggest you drink two extra pints of water per day, spread across three-four sittings. Will it work? Probably not. But, I’d give it an over 10% chance, and it will cost you nothing.
pipes 3y ago
Hydration is a big part too: I have venesections done every two week or so as a treatment for hemochromatosis. I.e. They take 450ml blood and dump it. If my blood pressure is low before hand, the nurses get me to drink two jugs of water, blood pressure goes up to normal range with in minutes. Same before they let me drive home. This has turned out to be a really useful tip for me life in general. If I'm feeling shit, I now suspect low blood pressure and force myself to drink two or three pints of water. It usually results in me feeling much better
- robocat 3y ago
  > venesections I.e. They take 450ml blood and dump it. Blood letting - wow! > Haemochromatosis Haemochromatosis is an inherited condition where iron levels in the body slowly build up https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/haemochromatosis/ https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/haemochromatosis/
davidjytang 3y ago
My dad has hypertension due to [Conn's syndrome](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primary_aldosteronism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primary_aldosteronism). The only thing that helped tremendously was surgery.

BaculumMeumEst 3y ago

Wow, that sounds like quite an ordeal. Glad you landed okay! I had no idea medication could have that strong of an effect. I also have been checking my levels a little obsessively, unsuccessfully trying to find ways to drop them. And like you, I noticed that I spike during cold weather. I’m probably particularly sensitive because I have very low body fat.

manmal 3y ago
You probably tried potassium chloride/bicarbonate already?
- BaculumMeumEst 3y ago
  I just tried upping dietary potassium with more bananas and avocados and reducing sodium, haven’t looked in to potassium chloride/bicarbonate
  - manmal 3y ago
    Supplementing it is totally different in my experience.

hwillis 3y ago

Raynauds?

llm_nerd 3y ago
Secondary Raynaud's absolutely. In any below room temperature setting my fingers would be incredibly cold to the point of being debilitating. I ended up being a glove wearer in situations where it looked pretty goofy. This has dramatically improved/disappeared under the medication listed above.
- url00 3y ago
  Wow, it sounds so familiar to myself! I have all the same symptoms and went down the path of testing BP and blood glucose with similar results. How did you get the doctor to prescribe the drugs? Or was it a pretty straightforward diagnosis?
  - hwillis 3y ago
    Definitely does not sound straightforward given all the things they tested and excluded. It also very atypical and medicating specifically for this would be unusual. That said it sure sounds like it perfectly treats the root problem. If you have symptoms like Raynauds and POTS (note that POTS can be hard to demonstrate, so may be less convincing to a doctor) then Amlodipine or similar may be helpful. If you take it and you feel lightheaded when standing up, or have trouble with exercise or fatigue, you probably don't need it and it isn't good for you. You may have more consistently high blood pressure rather than transient spikes if you don't have POTS, or if you don't react immediately to cold temperatures. In that case an angiotensin blocker like Telmisartan may help. It can take weeks to become effective, vs Amlodipine should show effects in just a few days. If you have high blood pressure then just telling your doctor you want Amlodipine or something will probably be enough- convincing insurance will be harder. Amlodipine can be used off-label for Raynauds. If you don't have particularly high blood pressure and haven't systematically tried to exclude causes it will be harder to convince your doctor. They might let you try it for a bit to see if it helps, and the generic isn't too expensive.

ungruntled 3y ago

Myself being someone who suspects that they have high blood pressure (based on infrequent measurement), would you mind sharing if you had any recurring symptoms (outside of hearing heartbeat) when your blood pressure was at its peak?

rapfaria 3y ago
Pain on the back of the head constantly, specially at the end of the day. Been on Olmesartan since then and couldn't be happier
- zy0n911 3y ago
  This exact symptom literally happened to me a couple of months ago. It was the kinda pain that started in one shoulder and rounded itself up into my head and front temple, and it _always_ started in the early evening. After doing a bit of research I got myself a monitor, and sure enough my readings one between 150-170/90ish. I'm also a type 1 diabetic to add to it.
llm_nerd 3y ago
My initial decision to seek treatment was recurring massive migraines that would wake me up in the middle of the night and last for hours. I had known that I had high blood pressure but didn't really track it closely at all, always attributing the few really high readings I did get to white coat syndrome (which is a very real, but it also can be an easy dismissal as well). During one of those migraine sessions I hopped on Amazon and ordered a unit. It came and I was sure it was defective because it kept measuring 170+ / 120+, which seemed impossible. A few days later I stopped by a pharmacy with one of the big units, and it read the same thing. So I visited my doctor. He put me on 5mg of amolodipine and it did very close to nothing. Then it was upped to 10mg and still little benefit. It was the addition of telmisartan that completely changed everything for me. The effect was overwhelming. It's hard for me to really identify the symptoms because I lived with it, I suspect, for many years. It was my norm. I will say this: at my current blood pressure I constantly feel way more relaxed, physically. Like my body doesn't feel in a constant fight state.

itissid 3y ago

> I would be constantly annoyed by the sound of my own heartbeat doing things like trying to sleep. Wait what? explain more please.

llm_nerd 3y ago
Pulsatile tinnitus (didn't know this name before but just looked it up), which is when blood pressure is so high that in quiet you hear your own heartbeat and the whooshing of blood in your veins.
- bradknowles 3y ago
  I periodically have that, plus regular tinnitus. PT is the one thing so far that I haven't been able to get fixed with the four different high blood pressure medications that I'm currently on.
hwillis 3y ago
Ever run real hard and felt your heartbeat in your ears? Like that but always. It can also happen if you have valve or other heart defects that cause enlargement, but that isn't loud in your ears. It's just so loud in your chest that you can hear it. Sometimes other people can as well.

aantix 3y ago

What's your potassium level? Potassium relaxes the walls of the blood vessels. It's a counterbalance to sodium. Doctors will say 3.5 is fine, but there are several studies demonstrating that as you approach 4.5, the risk of cardiac events drop. Doctors get very tense about potassium supplementation in fear of hyperkalemia. But the RDA for potassium use to be ~4200mg. I'm guessing most don't remotely approach the new or old RDA. If you're taking potassium sparing medications, things are further complicated. K levels would have to be checked more often. I supplement with potassium citrate. My blood pressure has normalized.

llm_nerd 3y ago
4.5 mmol/L. Coincidentally just got a blood test six days ago (this is in Canada and Lifelabs lets you see your own results). I don't go out of my way to consume potassium at this point, but my potassium has been 4.5 steady for all the tests I've gotten over the past year. My sodium has been rock solid at 139 mmol/L as well. I didn't add it as one of my listed items, but I did try supplementing with potassium before starting with medication and for me it wasn't beneficial, though it certainly would be for people with deficiencies.
aantix 3y ago
Hyperaldosteronism. If someone has a consistently low potassium level, you should see an endocrinologist and get tested for Hyperaldosteronism. Surplus aldosterone causes the body to retain more salt, which in turn increase blood pressure. Consistently low potassium, early onset of hypertension, taking three or more BP medications (one of which is a diuretic), all red flags. Hyperaldosteronism should be pursued. I had my left adrenal gland taken out to address it.
hwillis 3y ago
Potassium and sodium are also excreted together, so decreasing sodium/increasing potassium typically results in beneficial impacts on the other. > Doctors get very tense about potassium supplementation in fear of hyperkalemia. Supplementing with potassium is not recommended because it's not very effective. 99 mg of potassium citrate gives you only 38 grams of potassium- *you need ~100 pills to get your daily value!* You will see much better results from changing your diet to include more potato (note: 1/4 of the potassium is in the skin), beans, and spinach (although a lot of spinach- 10oz has as much as a large potato). One large potato can give you 900 mg of potassium.

eddy_chan 3y ago

Thanks for sharing publicly. May I ask if the Caduet has any side effects? I'm going through a similar issue. I know that my problem is alcohol, being overweight and middle age (40+). I'm also on Telmisartan which takes it down from 170/100 to about 135/85 on a good day which is still too high for my liking. I might try asking the doc for dual therapy on my next visit and Caduet sounds like a good candidate. My cholesterol also on the high side just outside of normal range! I know I need to lose 20-25lbs but I can't see it happening because of a combo of dad/work life.

llm_nerd 3y ago
>I know that my problem is alcohol, being overweight and middle age The middle-aged part for sure, but I don't drink, I'm an ideal weight and have a mid to high level of fitness -- high cholesterol and a super high BP before medication. Sometimes it just be the way it is. Caduet comes with a list of warnings, primarily courtesy of the Lipitor (atorvastatin) component. Periodic bloodwork is necessary to make sure there isn't liver damage occurring, etc. I've endured zero side effects of any sort, and my bloodwork has been stellar. With a 10/20 caduet (which means 10mg amlodipine / 20mg atorvastatin) my triglycerides fell from 2.63 to 1.06, cholesterol from 6.33 to 3.64, LDL from 4.23 to 2.2. Was super surprised at the scale of the improvements.

sph 3y ago

Mmm.. I have been measuring my blood pressure for 5 years, twice a day, and I can't say I agree with you. - Coffee increases systolic by 15 mmHg for 6 hours, so does smoking. - Lisdexamphetamine (I am diagnosed ADHD) decreases BP by 10 mmHg - Good sleep for 5+ consecutive days decreases BP. One day isn't enough. - Rebound hypertension when forgetting my BP meds is a thing. +10 mmHg the next day. - Low carb diet decreases BP steadily after the first week or so, especially if your metabolism is out of whack (understandable due to the deleterious effect of fructose on nitric oxide production) - Amateur BP readings (wrong time of day, single measurement, not relaxed enough) can add 30 mmHg easily. Readings taken at the GP's office are worthless for this reason. My advice is measure every 3 minutes until your BP measurement stabilises. The correct reading is the lowest. Sometimes you need 15 minutes to reset to baseline. - Also important is the delta between systolic and diastolic. Mine is around 40 mmHg, if it's higher than that, it's an indicator of a stress peak (bad sleep, bad day, overwhelmed) that usually resolves after a couple days.

llm_nerd 3y ago
Many people have very different responses to stimuli: Some people see a spike from salt. Many don't. Some see a spike from coffee, while others actually see a decline! I merely gave my own personal observations from my own rigorous monitoring/hacking regime. I found no "do this and improve nn mmHg" simple solution, beyond the stated observation about avoiding coldness. I have zero reason to disbelieve your own observations about your own carbon machine, however. Some people will be like me, many others won't, but the real lesson is that there are no hard and fast quick fixes.
- sph 3y ago
  Certainly, but I'd like to see the methodology of your experiments if you're able to say that a stimulant like coffee doesn't do anything, nor exercise. It might not do anything in the short term, but I dare you to drink 3x your daily coffee intake and see if you can't see any change, or to increase/quit your fitness routine and whether it doesn't do anything over a year. I have tracked by BP over 50 kg of weight change, and BP correlates really nicely with fitness level, stress, etc. even though trends are visible over months, not hours. There certainly are no quick fixes, apart from taking a BP pill (I take telmisartan+amlodipine, the latter replacing a diuretic that made me drier than the Sahara desert)

hedora 3y ago

So, my heart was pounding and erratic at night, and my blood pressure would spike at random intervals. The root cause was that I moved to a 2000’ higher elevation, and was dehydrated. Since winter air is lower humidity, I suggest you drink two extra pints of water per day, spread across three-four sittings. Will it work? Probably not. But, I’d give it an over 10% chance, and it will cost you nothing.

pipes 3y ago

Hydration is a big part too: I have venesections done every two week or so as a treatment for hemochromatosis. I.e. They take 450ml blood and dump it. If my blood pressure is low before hand, the nurses get me to drink two jugs of water, blood pressure goes up to normal range with in minutes. Same before they let me drive home. This has turned out to be a really useful tip for me life in general. If I'm feeling shit, I now suspect low blood pressure and force myself to drink two or three pints of water. It usually results in me feeling much better

robocat 3y ago
> venesections I.e. They take 450ml blood and dump it. Blood letting - wow! > Haemochromatosis Haemochromatosis is an inherited condition where iron levels in the body slowly build up https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/haemochromatosis/ https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/haemochromatosis/

davidjytang 3y ago

My dad has hypertension due to [Conn's syndrome](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primary_aldosteronism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primary_aldosteronism). The only thing that helped tremendously was surgery.