3 ms·

In theory we have that right. In practice, 98% of criminal cases in the federal courts end with a plea bargain. https://www.npr.org/2023/02/22/1158356619/plea

In theory we have that right. In practice, 98% of criminal cases in the federal courts end with a plea bargain. https://www.npr.org/2023/02/22/1158356619/plea-bargains-criminal-cases-justice https://www.npr.org/2023/02/22/1158356619/plea-bargains-crim...

ceejayoz 3y ago
We have the right to a speedy trial and a the right to accept a plea bargain. You can decline a plea bargain and demand a speedy trial; the limits are defined by law. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speedy_Trial_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speedy_Trial_Act (As with other rights, these rights sometimes require active defense by civil rights organizations, nor are they completely absolute.)
- joshuamorton 3y ago
  Note this only applies to federal trials, not state trials (where the vast majority of crimes are prosecuted).
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    It's often defined at the state level, too. Here in NY, prosecutors are required to be ready to go within six months (felony) or 90 days (misdemeanor): https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/CPL/30.30 https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/CPL/30.30 The right exists whether or not your state has legislation defining a timeframe, too.
    - joshuamorton 3y ago
      Yeah, absolutely the constitutional right exists, but it's often less well defined than the federal version, which is very clear and well followed.
- BurningFrog 3y ago
  Few people choose this because of the "trail penalty". If you're found guilty in a trial, you get a 2-4 times longer sentence than the plea deal would have given. So the theoretical right to a trial remains, but exercising that right is heavily penalized. To me that means the right is for practical purposes no longer exists.
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    Sure, that's why it's a deal. You say penalty, they say bargain. Both are true. For folks who've genuinely committed big-boy crimes, a plea bargain is great; for falsely accused innocents it presents an unpleasant dilemma at times. My being able to opt to voluntarily testify doesn't mean the right to remain silent doesn't exist. We'd have no rights by your definition.
    - BurningFrog 3y ago
      You can think of it that way if you want, sure. Another angle is that plead bargains are necessary to put as many people in jail as we do. The judicial system would completely break down if it needed to have 50x as many trials.
      - ceejayoz 3y ago
        > The judicial system would completely break down if it needed to have 50x as many trials. Yes. I'd argue that's not universally or even mostly a good thing.
l33t7332273 3y ago
I’m not following what that has to do with a speedy trial.
thephyber 3y ago
We still have that right. The nuance is the US court system allows additional punishment if a defendant chooses to go to trial. Also, plea bargaining usually involves lots of prosecutor bluffing before they have to show discovery which is the same time they can “throw the book at the defendant” (overload the charges beyond what they can actually prove to a jury). It’s also worth mentioning that the speedy trial can sometimes come with strings attached (as Georgia’s statute which has been recently discussed ad nauseum in the cases of 2 of the 19 2020-electoral-college-RICO defendants)

ceejayoz 3y ago

We have the right to a speedy trial and a the right to accept a plea bargain. You can decline a plea bargain and demand a speedy trial; the limits are defined by law. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speedy_Trial_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speedy_Trial_Act (As with other rights, these rights sometimes require active defense by civil rights organizations, nor are they completely absolute.)

joshuamorton 3y ago
Note this only applies to federal trials, not state trials (where the vast majority of crimes are prosecuted).
- ceejayoz 3y ago
  It's often defined at the state level, too. Here in NY, prosecutors are required to be ready to go within six months (felony) or 90 days (misdemeanor): https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/CPL/30.30 https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/CPL/30.30 The right exists whether or not your state has legislation defining a timeframe, too.
  - joshuamorton 3y ago
    Yeah, absolutely the constitutional right exists, but it's often less well defined than the federal version, which is very clear and well followed.
BurningFrog 3y ago
Few people choose this because of the "trail penalty". If you're found guilty in a trial, you get a 2-4 times longer sentence than the plea deal would have given. So the theoretical right to a trial remains, but exercising that right is heavily penalized. To me that means the right is for practical purposes no longer exists.
- ceejayoz 3y ago
  Sure, that's why it's a deal. You say penalty, they say bargain. Both are true. For folks who've genuinely committed big-boy crimes, a plea bargain is great; for falsely accused innocents it presents an unpleasant dilemma at times. My being able to opt to voluntarily testify doesn't mean the right to remain silent doesn't exist. We'd have no rights by your definition.
  - BurningFrog 3y ago
    You can think of it that way if you want, sure. Another angle is that plead bargains are necessary to put as many people in jail as we do. The judicial system would completely break down if it needed to have 50x as many trials.
    - ceejayoz 3y ago
      > The judicial system would completely break down if it needed to have 50x as many trials. Yes. I'd argue that's not universally or even mostly a good thing.

l33t7332273 3y ago

I’m not following what that has to do with a speedy trial.

thephyber 3y ago

We still have that right. The nuance is the US court system allows additional punishment if a defendant chooses to go to trial. Also, plea bargaining usually involves lots of prosecutor bluffing before they have to show discovery which is the same time they can “throw the book at the defendant” (overload the charges beyond what they can actually prove to a jury). It’s also worth mentioning that the speedy trial can sometimes come with strings attached (as Georgia’s statute which has been recently discussed ad nauseum in the cases of 2 of the 19 2020-electoral-college-RICO defendants)