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> Google pockets on average more than 30% of the advertising dollars that flow through its digital advertising technology products Say more about tech companie

> Google pockets on average more than 30% of the advertising dollars that flow through its digital advertising technology products Say more about tech companies extracting 30% from their platform...

connor11528 3y ago
For real. Hopefully won't be long until there's a similar case against Apple https://www.politico.com/news/2022/08/26/justice-department-antitrust-apple-00053939 https://www.politico.com/news/2022/08/26/justice-department-...
CharlesW 3y ago
You're going to really be shocked when you learn what percentage physical retailers "extract" from their platform.
- asah 3y ago
  And dealers And distributors And sales reps And ...
- paxys 3y ago
  The key here is "retailers". If there were exactly 2 retail companies worldwide that were controlling what we could buy/sell and extracting a tax from each sale, you can be sure there would be a hell of a lot more outrage and legislation than there is over the current mobile app store duopoly.
- arrosenberg 3y ago
  Most physical retailers face competitive market forces, unlike the two app stores that are vertically aligned with their software and/or hardware platforms.
  - CharlesW 3y ago
    I'm not sure how that's relevant. Walmart (Android) can't sell in Target (iOS) stores.
    - AnthonyMouse 3y ago
      LEGO can sell their toys in both Walmart and Target and the customer can choose where to buy them based on which store has the best price. Customers with iPhones can't buy through Google Play and customers with Android can't buy through Apple, so the stores don't have to compete with each other. And no one else can open a toy store that sells toys to anyone regardless of what kind of phone they have.
      - CharlesW 3y ago
        > LEGO can sell their toys in both Walmart and Target and the customer can choose where to buy them based on which store has the best price. How is this different than X selling X Premium in App Store, Google Play store, and on the open web, and the customer choosing where to buy based on which option has the best price? ¹ https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/twitter-blue#tbpricing-bycountry https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/twitter-blue#tbpri...
        AnthonyMouse 3y ago
        X Premium is a service, not an app. That doesn't apply to apps, does it? It doesn't even apply to all services: https://developer.apple.com/support/reader-apps/ https://developer.apple.com/support/reader-apps/ They exempted media companies because media companies have a bullhorn to rail against their monopoly rents if it affects them. It kind of implies that even X isn't blessed by Apple to do this, but X has its own kind of bullhorn and may or may not find satisfaction for that reason. But what are you proving with the exception that proves the rule?
- xnx 3y ago
  2.8 - 3.5% net margin? https://www.forrester.com/blogs/us-retail-industry-sales-and-profits-trends-2001-2022-steady-growth/ https://www.forrester.com/blogs/us-retail-industry-sales-and... I don't know what app stores net margins are. Probably higher than 20%? https://9to5mac.com/2021/05/01/apple-runs-app-store-with-78-profit-margin-according-to-court-testimony/ https://9to5mac.com/2021/05/01/apple-runs-app-store-with-78-...
  - CharlesW 3y ago
    Retail/keystone markup is typically 50%.
    - AnthonyMouse 3y ago
      That's gross margin, not net margin. Net margin is as above, because retailers are selling physical goods transported between physical buildings on physical trucks. For digital goods we pretty well know what the costs look like. They'll be paying less than 3% for credit card transactions, even less for bank transfers, and app distribution has costs at the level of "F-Droid does this for free". Or if you want an actual market price, using S3 to store an app of average size (35MB) which costs $1 and gets only one download/month (maximizing storage costs per download), the percentage for storage and distribution would be around 0.12%. Which only goes down if you get more downloads because you can amortize the storage cost over multiple downloads. Then they have to pay programmers, but this gets amortized not over downloads per app but downloads per store, which rounds to zero. Notice that F-Droid does this part for free too, and with much less scale. So their expected total costs are approximately 3%, or less because these are the prices available at retail and at their scale they would be lower, implying that their net margins are at least 27%, compared to 2.8 - 3.5% for most retailers.
      - CharlesW 3y ago
        I'm happy if you want to talk net margins as long as we're comparing Apples to apples (digital to digital), so to speak. For most developers, Apple's gross margin is 20% of what's considered a healthy minimum gross margin for SaaS companies, like the ones many of us work for.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- smoldesu 3y ago
  If any of the retail stores I worked at lost 30% of their revenue overnight, I'd be out of a job. I'm not sure what things are like on the West coast these days, but those are not workable margins.

> Google pockets on average more than 30% of the advertising dollars that flow through its digital advertising technology products Say more about tech companies extracting 30% from their platform...

connor11528 3y ago

For real. Hopefully won't be long until there's a similar case against Apple https://www.politico.com/news/2022/08/26/justice-department-antitrust-apple-00053939 https://www.politico.com/news/2022/08/26/justice-department-...

CharlesW 3y ago

You're going to really be shocked when you learn what percentage physical retailers "extract" from their platform.

asah 3y ago
And dealers And distributors And sales reps And ...
paxys 3y ago
The key here is "retailers". If there were exactly 2 retail companies worldwide that were controlling what we could buy/sell and extracting a tax from each sale, you can be sure there would be a hell of a lot more outrage and legislation than there is over the current mobile app store duopoly.
arrosenberg 3y ago
Most physical retailers face competitive market forces, unlike the two app stores that are vertically aligned with their software and/or hardware platforms.
- CharlesW 3y ago
  I'm not sure how that's relevant. Walmart (Android) can't sell in Target (iOS) stores.
  - AnthonyMouse 3y ago
    LEGO can sell their toys in both Walmart and Target and the customer can choose where to buy them based on which store has the best price. Customers with iPhones can't buy through Google Play and customers with Android can't buy through Apple, so the stores don't have to compete with each other. And no one else can open a toy store that sells toys to anyone regardless of what kind of phone they have.
    - CharlesW 3y ago
      > LEGO can sell their toys in both Walmart and Target and the customer can choose where to buy them based on which store has the best price. How is this different than X selling X Premium in App Store, Google Play store, and on the open web, and the customer choosing where to buy based on which option has the best price? ¹ https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/twitter-blue#tbpricing-bycountry https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/twitter-blue#tbpri...
      - AnthonyMouse 3y ago
        X Premium is a service, not an app. That doesn't apply to apps, does it? It doesn't even apply to all services: https://developer.apple.com/support/reader-apps/ https://developer.apple.com/support/reader-apps/ They exempted media companies because media companies have a bullhorn to rail against their monopoly rents if it affects them. It kind of implies that even X isn't blessed by Apple to do this, but X has its own kind of bullhorn and may or may not find satisfaction for that reason. But what are you proving with the exception that proves the rule?
xnx 3y ago
2.8 - 3.5% net margin? https://www.forrester.com/blogs/us-retail-industry-sales-and-profits-trends-2001-2022-steady-growth/ https://www.forrester.com/blogs/us-retail-industry-sales-and... I don't know what app stores net margins are. Probably higher than 20%? https://9to5mac.com/2021/05/01/apple-runs-app-store-with-78-profit-margin-according-to-court-testimony/ https://9to5mac.com/2021/05/01/apple-runs-app-store-with-78-...
- CharlesW 3y ago
  Retail/keystone markup is typically 50%.
  - AnthonyMouse 3y ago
    That's gross margin, not net margin. Net margin is as above, because retailers are selling physical goods transported between physical buildings on physical trucks. For digital goods we pretty well know what the costs look like. They'll be paying less than 3% for credit card transactions, even less for bank transfers, and app distribution has costs at the level of "F-Droid does this for free". Or if you want an actual market price, using S3 to store an app of average size (35MB) which costs $1 and gets only one download/month (maximizing storage costs per download), the percentage for storage and distribution would be around 0.12%. Which only goes down if you get more downloads because you can amortize the storage cost over multiple downloads. Then they have to pay programmers, but this gets amortized not over downloads per app but downloads per store, which rounds to zero. Notice that F-Droid does this part for free too, and with much less scale. So their expected total costs are approximately 3%, or less because these are the prices available at retail and at their scale they would be lower, implying that their net margins are at least 27%, compared to 2.8 - 3.5% for most retailers.
    - CharlesW 3y ago
      I'm happy if you want to talk net margins as long as we're comparing Apples to apples (digital to digital), so to speak. For most developers, Apple's gross margin is 20% of what's considered a healthy minimum gross margin for SaaS companies, like the ones many of us work for.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
smoldesu 3y ago
If any of the retail stores I worked at lost 30% of their revenue overnight, I'd be out of a job. I'm not sure what things are like on the West coast these days, but those are not workable margins.