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> so why the 4 hour lead time To answer your question without conspiracy drivel, let's look up CAP 694: The UK Flight Planning Guide [0] Chapter 1 > 6.1 The

> so why the 4 hour lead time To answer your question without conspiracy drivel, let's look up CAP 694: The UK Flight Planning Guide [0] Chapter 1 > 6.1 The general ICAO requirement is that FPLs should be filed on the ground at least 60 minutes before clearance to start-up or taxi is requested. The "Estimated Off Block Time" (EOBT) is used as the planned departure time in flight planning, not the planned airborne time. > 6.3 IFR flights on the North Atlantic and on routes subject to Air Traffic Flow Management, should be filed a minimum of 3 hours before EOBT (see Chapter 4). Chapter 4 > 1.1 The UK is a participating State in the Integrated Initial Flight Plan Processing System (IFPS), which is an integral part of the Eurocontrol centralised Air Traffic Flow Management (ATFM) system. > 4.1 FPLs should be filed a minimum of 3 hours before Estimated Off Block Time (EOBT) for North Atlantic flights and those subject to ATFM measures, and a minimum of 60 minutes before EOBT for all other flights. So the answer is because the UK is part of a Europe-wide air traffic control system, which hands out full flight plans to all the relevant authorities for each airspace, and they decided 3 hours is needed so that all possible participants can get their shit together and tell you if they accept the plan or not. An entirely separate system exists to share Advanced Passenger Information, i.e. passenger manifests [1], and it goes even further that airlines share your overall identity with each other, known as a Passenger Name Record [2], and a variety of countries, led by the USA, insist on this information in advance before the plane is allowed to take off [3] If you're going to be paranoid, please work with known facts instead of speculating. [0] https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP%20694.pdf https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP%20694.pdf [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance_Passenger_Information_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance_Passenger_Information_... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passenger_name_record https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passenger_name_record [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States%E2%80%93European_Union_Agreement_on_Passenger_Name_Records https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States%E2%80%93European...

darkclouds 3y ago
So on point 3 then, why do countries, turn people away at the destination and not before take off, if their visa or passport is not in order? Are their systems not joined up, or does the state just like making examples of peoples once on the destination country? I can watch this stuff happening to people at airport border controls on TV all the time so which is it? Their systems are not joined up or they just like making examples of people?
- amiga386 3y ago
  Most countries do not have prescreening or data sharing treaties. Even in the case where two countries do have it, not all entrance criteria can be determined by electronic records. Countries reserve the right to check the traveller themselves before they permit entry. Here's a list of common reasons for the UK to refuse entry on arrival: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/suitability-refusal-of-entry-on-arrival-in-the-united-kingdom-immigration-staff-guidance https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/suitability-refus... Some examples: * Your valid travel document (as communicated digitally) turns out to be invalid when you actually present it * You got a tourist visa, not a work visa, so why do you have work tools in your luggage? * You turn up infected with Ebola
- splonk 3y ago
  Airline employees routinely turn people away at the departure airport due to visa/passport paperwork not being in order. Timatic is the usual system that most airlines subscribe to for this kind of thing. Airlines are highly incented to avoid letting a passenger board who won't be admitted, because they're on the hook for returning that passenger. But an airline employee in at the departure airport is never going to be able to be a perfect proxy for an immigration officer in every country they fly to, and immigration officers generally have wide latitude in who they accept/reject. It is extremely possible that all your paperwork is in order but the immigration control officer rejects you for other reasons.
  - darkclouds 3y ago
    So how do they spot the fake passports then? And is this a legal on the hook for returning passengers that are not allowed in the destination country? I've got caught in the US when Hurricane Katrina was landing, and whilst we were flown out by our carrier, other carriers in this situation would also honour our ticket and fly us back to the UK. It seemed like an exodus where all the carriers just got people out of the country as quickly as possible. We were on the last flight out of the airport, but this isnt a legal thing is it?

darkclouds 3y ago

So on point 3 then, why do countries, turn people away at the destination and not before take off, if their visa or passport is not in order? Are their systems not joined up, or does the state just like making examples of peoples once on the destination country? I can watch this stuff happening to people at airport border controls on TV all the time so which is it? Their systems are not joined up or they just like making examples of people?

amiga386 3y ago
Most countries do not have prescreening or data sharing treaties. Even in the case where two countries do have it, not all entrance criteria can be determined by electronic records. Countries reserve the right to check the traveller themselves before they permit entry. Here's a list of common reasons for the UK to refuse entry on arrival: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/suitability-refusal-of-entry-on-arrival-in-the-united-kingdom-immigration-staff-guidance https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/suitability-refus... Some examples: * Your valid travel document (as communicated digitally) turns out to be invalid when you actually present it * You got a tourist visa, not a work visa, so why do you have work tools in your luggage? * You turn up infected with Ebola
splonk 3y ago
Airline employees routinely turn people away at the departure airport due to visa/passport paperwork not being in order. Timatic is the usual system that most airlines subscribe to for this kind of thing. Airlines are highly incented to avoid letting a passenger board who won't be admitted, because they're on the hook for returning that passenger. But an airline employee in at the departure airport is never going to be able to be a perfect proxy for an immigration officer in every country they fly to, and immigration officers generally have wide latitude in who they accept/reject. It is extremely possible that all your paperwork is in order but the immigration control officer rejects you for other reasons.
- darkclouds 3y ago
  So how do they spot the fake passports then? And is this a legal on the hook for returning passengers that are not allowed in the destination country? I've got caught in the US when Hurricane Katrina was landing, and whilst we were flown out by our carrier, other carriers in this situation would also honour our ticket and fly us back to the UK. It seemed like an exodus where all the carriers just got people out of the country as quickly as possible. We were on the last flight out of the airport, but this isnt a legal thing is it?