7 ms·

Asking because my context as an American may not apply: If an American were jailed for the maximum 60 days, then they would almost certainly be fired from their

• deleted 3y ago
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• morkalork 3y ago
  No idea, just wanted to chime in with "you may beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride!"
• nvahalik 3y ago
  > maximum 60 days In the US, political prisoners have been jailed for years without trial. 60 days would be a major respite.
  • banannaise 3y ago
    I'm referring to the maximum length of detention under the German law being used (if I'm reading things right). I am aware that the US has some pretty serious problems that are at least somewhat related, but I'm trying not to digress into that.
    • skrause 3y ago
      > I'm referring to the maximum length of detention under the German law being used (if I'm reading things right). It's not a German law but a state law. Some states only allow 4 days, Berlin only 2 days: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unterbindungsgewahrsam https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unterbindungsgewahrsam Of course it's Baravia which allows the (by far) longest detention with two months.
    • formerly_proven 3y ago
      This is outside criminal procedure, which is a federal matter. Since it's not a criminal proceeding, criminal courts don't have jurisdiction, and the rights you have in criminal proceedings do not apply. This is a state administrative matter instead. Legally speaking, this solitary detention is not even a punishment.
  • bsimpson 3y ago
    We have a constitutional right to a speedy trial. That right can be waived to give the defense time to prepare, and it isn't always enforced for non-citizens detained abroad (e.g. Guantanamo), but I'm unaware of anything similar to the article happening in the US.
    • nvahalik 3y ago
      See: January 6th. There are still many people in jail who haven't been to trial.
      • jeffbee 3y ago
        A person who is in jail awaiting trial for attempting to overthrow the government of the United States is not a "political prisoner".
        • deleted 3y ago
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        • ipaddr 3y ago
          In many cases they would be if they subscribed to a political ideology and committed acts because of them. In this case overthrowing is actual a protest that went out of control because of lax security. A real overthrow attempt would need to involve heavy weapons. Protesters didn't even have butter knives.
          • l33t7332273 3y ago
            > In this case overthrowing is actual a protest Only for some of the people involved. However, there were certainly people there attempting an actual overthrow[1] [1] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jan/14/oath-keepers-leader-charges-armed-plot-us-capitol-attack https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jan/14/oath-keepers...
      • thephyber 3y ago
        They are not political prisoners. They committed federal crimes while live-streaming it and the government has presented the evidence. It just so happens that the amount of evidence they generated while committing crimes overloaded the DOJ’s capacity to collect and organize it (both prerequisites for discovery by the defendants before they can build their defense). There have been a few defendants who have successfully challenged the speed of the trial and courts have let them off. It’s far more likely that the DOJ attorneys are simply overwhelmed with the prosecution than they are purposefully persecuting the arrested. > According to the George Washington Program on Extremism, the FBI has arrested 940 people in connection to January 6. Of those, 43 were convicted, 481 pleaded guilty, and 382 are still waiting for trial. Most of the people waiting are out on bail. [1] It so happens that the defendants all committed crimes on the same day, causing a backlog in prosecution work. It also happens that DC is a strange jurisdiction that requires coordination between federal officers of different departments (Capitol Police, Parks Police, Secret Service, etc) in a town that must get all funding passed through Congress, which is functionally broken most of the year. Terrible example of time-to-trial problems in the US, which is actually a significant issue, even in well funded jurisdictions. [1] https://newrepublic.com/article/170991/cpac-january-6-riot-prisoners https://newrepublic.com/article/170991/cpac-january-6-riot-p...
  • deleted 3y ago
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  • znpy 3y ago
    It seems that GP has deleted their comment before anyone else could reply. I'll report it here, verbatim, as i still have it open in another tab: ----- Are you talking about US citizens? I'm unaware of that in any recent decades, and I assume you're talking about recent history. More complicated cases take longer to prepare for trial, but can you point to a single example of a US citizen jailed for political purposes where their trial has clearly been delayed for political reasons? ----- and here is what i wanted to reply: > I'm unaware of that in any recent decades https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuAAPsiD768 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuAAPsiD768 - " The secret US prisons you've never heard of before | Will Potter"
    • pc86 3y ago
      Jails and prison are different.
• sho_hn 3y ago
  It's complicated, and the law leaves a lot of wiggle room. In principle, it can be a valid reason to end an employment relationship from the employer side if someone is unable to perform their work due to being in jail. However there's a lot of hoops to jump through for the employer - the absence has to be of "significant length", the employer has to be able to show they deeply looked into it when they came to this conclusion, they need to consult with the employee on it, they may have to look into alternative solutions to fill the gap, etc. As a guideline, if the absence is expected to be two years or longer, much of this is no longer expected by the employer. I think most employers would not get away with firing someone in this case.
• recvonline 3y ago
  Your employer is not allowed to fire you if are in jail for less than 2 years. You also can't evict someone from their home because of jail. And the government might be paying your landlord for your time in jail as well (depending on the time etc.). It's complicated, but basically, Up to 6 months, all fine on all ends. Germans don't have car payments usually. They pay for the car in cash, if they don't have enough, they buy a smaller car :)
  • sho_hn 3y ago
    > Germans don't have car payments usually. There's a lot of leasing.
    • jacquesm 3y ago
      That's corporate, mostly. But this is changing a bit, there are more private lease constructs but they are quite expensive compared to just owning the car.
      • iamthirsty 3y ago
        > That's corporate, mostly. Stats would be nice.
        • dotancohen 3y ago
          You do know that stats are the easiest way to lie, yes?
          • TylerE 3y ago
            No, the easiest way to lie is “just trust me bro”
        • jacquesm 3y ago
          https://bdl.leasingverband.de/en/newsroom/press-releases/single-view/the-german-leasing-market-2020 https://bdl.leasingverband.de/en/newsroom/press-releases/sin... https://www.ibisworld.com/germany/industry/car-rental-leasing/966/ https://www.ibisworld.com/germany/industry/car-rental-leasin... And many other industry publications. Private lease is a very small fraction, but it is growing. Same picture in most of Western Europe, in Eastern Europe it is very variable from one country to another.
• znpy 3y ago
  > become 30+ days late on all of their bills since you cannot pay bills from jail can't americans bind the utilities to their checking account? i (european) can do that. the bills are paid automatically from my balance (the same where i receive my salary). the web portal from my bank can lists all the entities allowed to pay bills from my balance, and i can revoke any of them unilaterally (in that case i'd have to go back to pay the bills one by one, manually).
  • Blackthorn 3y ago
    They can but that's generally not the problem. You aren't getting paid while you're in jail, so those payments are likely to bounce (Americans often live paycheck to paycheck).
    • SirMaster 3y ago
      Why not bind them to their credit cards then? All my bills go to credit cards and I even get 2% cash back on them all that way too. I guess you will run into your credit limit that way eventually too if you are behind on payments for it.
• throw74848 3y ago
  It is almost impossible to fire long term employees in Germany. But getting proper employment is very difficult for this reason. Most people are on yearly contracts, part time jobs etc...
  • expertentipp 3y ago
    Absolutely untrue. Source: was fired from indefinite employment contract in Germany. If they hate you and start throwing at you Abmahnung, Aufhebung, and Kundigung, you need a lawyer immediately and the pile of papers and letters starts growing exponentially.
  • sho_hn 3y ago
    "Most people" is seriously wrong, statistically, but it's a significant number.
    • throw74848 3y ago
      Most new employees and new job openings, would be correct formulation. German job market is very static.
      • Xylakant 3y ago
        Please provide a citation. In 2022, about 30% of new hires had a term limit. The peak was in 2004, with about 54% at a time when very few positions were available. https://doku.iab.de/arbeitsmarktdaten/Befristungen_bei_Neueinstellungen_2022.pdf https://doku.iab.de/arbeitsmarktdaten/Befristungen_bei_Neuei... I already cited the share of term limited contracts above. It’s not surprising that term limited contracts are a significant chunk of the Job offerings, even if they are a small share of the total contracts - a job posting that must be renewed annually will appear every year for the same position, while an unlimited contract only opens up when a replacement must be found or a new position is created. Another cause is that a lot of companies use a limited contract as a trial period and later convert to an unlimited contract at renewal time. It is absolutely true that some sectors suffer from having a huge chunk of limited contracts (academia for example) and that there’s abuse (auxiliary teachers only being employed during the term and made redundant during vacations), but generalizing this to the entire German job market is neither warranted nor helpful.
• inglor_cz 3y ago
  "and become 30+ days late on all of their bills since you cannot pay bills from jail" Do Americans have to authorize all their recurring payments every month again and again? I certainly never paid such bills "one by one"; I set up a regular monthly payment and it would be done automatically on the Nth day of a month.
  • eddtests 3y ago
    I lived in America for two years and everything was automated
  • banannaise 3y ago
    Some bills can't be autopaid either easily or at all, particularly utility bills. For those that can be autopaid, many people don't have them on autopay because of potential disruptions when living paycheck-to-paycheck. If you have to choose between food and rent, you better not have the rent on autopay, or you've accidentally made your choice.
  • cableshaft 3y ago
    60% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck, so this wouldn't matter. If they're not making money in jail they can't pay their rent, even if they have autopay set up. https://ir.lendingclub.com/news/news-details/2023/60-of-Americans-Now-Living-Paycheck-to-Paycheck-Down-from-64-a-Month-Ago/default.aspx https://ir.lendingclub.com/news/news-details/2023/60-of-Amer...
  • thfuran 3y ago
    Some people choose not to set up automatic payments, and the percentage of people who are living paycheck to paycheck or nearly so is high enough that, even among those who do, probably a significant percentage would see the second month's payments fail if they were set up using a bank draft or debit card rather than a credit card.
• IMTDb 3y ago
  Most payments are done using SEPA mandates. The money automatically leaves your account, but you still get a piece of paper with the details. I don’t remember paying a single bill manually for the past 3 years at least. Credit card is paid in full at the end of the month as well automatically.
  • pc86 3y ago
    Which all comes grinding to a halt pretty quickly when you stop getting paid because you're in jail. I'm not sure about Germany specifically, but in the US the vast majority of people live paycheck-to-paycheck regardless of income bracket. Most are 2 weeks away from starting to have failing bill payments.
    • Xylakant 3y ago
      The rules about not paying employees for absences are a bit more difficult in Germany. Voluntary unannounced absence or unpaid vacation would be the simple cases, but involuntary absences don’t entitle the employer immediately to withhold payment, at least not for most employees on a fixed term contract. Things get more involved for workers that get paid by the piece. Freelancers would probably be the most hard hit here. This would pretty clearly be an involuntary absence - these folks are not even accused of committing a crime.
      • c4mpute 3y ago
        Absence is reason to withhold payment in Germany, you can only expect continued payment if you are absent because you are ill (and then only for a certain period). There are some provisions like having to pay out leftover holidays and overtime before stopping payments altogether, but payment is contingent on really working in general. Note that this is different from ending employment: If you are in jail, only an extended length of absence (usually 2 years) or a work-related crime is reason for dismissal. If you are in jail for 23 months you'll keep your job usually, you are just not getting paid.
        • 3y ago
• pelasaco 3y ago
  > Is the situation for short-term prisoners similar in Germany? Probably none of those kids have a Job, so no worries.
• mylons 3y ago
  [flagged]
  • imp0cat 3y ago
    Nah, you can buy a filter in Germany that goes between your wall socket and appliance. The device makes sure that only "good" electricity (ie. the kind that was generated by your preferred source) powers your appliances. I wish I was kidding.
    • mylons 3y ago
      it’s wild how isaac asimov saw the future history societal decline.
    • marcc 3y ago
      Got a link? I'm not sure how this would even work, but if you aren't kidding, I'm curious to read the marketing.
      • imp0cat 3y ago
        Obviously, it does not work. It's just a box with some LEDs. It only has one purpose - to part fools and their money. I had to switch my google results to German and search for "anti-akw-strom adapter" (AKW - atomkraftwerke). http://www.nucleostop.de/ http://www.nucleostop.de/
• deleted 3y ago
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• sabjut 3y ago
  Do you really pay you bills manually each month? When regular payments (like rent) are not debited directly from my account, I set up an auto transfer that sends out rent to my landlord at the 1st day of each month. How does this work in the US?
  • kelnos 3y ago
    It... depends. Personally, I have everything automated. Including one incredibly dumb thing: I have to pay my homeowners' association dues (I live in a small condo building, so we have shared expenses) by check, so I have my bank mail a check to their bank. It's incredibly dumb that I can't easily set up an automated electronic bank transfer, but at least I can automate mailing a paper check. US government agencies can also be annoying about this. For example, the city/county of San Francisco does not offer a way to automatically pay property taxes, which are billed twice a year. (My mortgage lender pays mine for me via an escrow account that gets funded along with my automatic monthly mortgage payment.) But a lot of people in the US are un- or under-banked, and don't always have access to automation, if the people/orgs they have to pay support any kind of automation at all. Many landlords (especially those who cater to lower-income folks) will only accept cash or check. Many people who have to pay them don't have an online bill-pay system. And even many who could automate things, don't, because their finances are precarious enough that they will sometimes choose to skip a credit card payment, or pay their rent late, etc., and they'll make these decisions month-to-month. If many people in the US were in jail for two months, after the first month (of not working, thus not getting paid) they wouldn't have enough money in their bank account to cover all their monthly bills. An unfortunate amount of people here live paycheck-to-paycheck. Also consider that there's a lot of overlap between people who have unstable finances and people who are more likely to get caught up in the justice system, regardless of their innocence or guilt.
• matricaria 3y ago
  The people glueing themselves to the street don’t have any other job. They get payed to do exactly this.