2 ms·

Are you talking about VB the language, or Visual Studio the IDE with its awesome GUI builder for WinForms (and not so awesome ones for the subsequent Windows GU

Are you talking about VB the language, or Visual Studio the IDE with its awesome GUI builder for WinForms (and not so awesome ones for the subsequent Windows GUI layers, forget what they're called). VB is still around but desktop apps in general (and thus VS's GUI builder) largely gave way to web technologies invented outside Microsoft. The dev experience is definitely worse though. Visual Studio was sooooo nice and integrated. I don't think this is really VB or NET's fault, Microsoft just kinda missed (or failed the fight against) the web transition. They were busy trying to make it coexist with Windows with seamless downloads like ClickOnce but ultimately simple web pages won out for their reach and ease of use, then mobile app stores came along, and now desktop apps are petty much dead except for niches.

hulitu 3y ago
> web pages won out for their reach and ease of use, Your definition of "ease of use" is amazing. /s
- solardev 3y ago
  Heh, point taken. But I'd say overall it's easier for grandma to go to Gmail to check her email than have to figure out what this "Netscrape Communicator" is, install it, set up her "pop three" from her "eyesp" and then deal with a million viruses. Yeah, the web ain't perfect, but it did win... ads got worse, though =/
Shorel 3y ago
I remember, in some sense, Google (and also a group of anti Microsoft developers) encouraged web development as a strategy to break the Windows software monopoly. So it's not that Microsoft missed it, it is that a big shift happened and it was specifically targeted against them. There's nothing they could have done, except to embrace it, and they did. Visual Basic Script existed and was very popular for a while. IE4 ruled the web. The shift to web based technologies is a Google and an open source win. And it is also an inferior experience. That was the price we paid =)
- solardev 3y ago
  Even in the IE4 days, Microsoft was still very much "we'll only do as much web as necessary, but we can't lose our Windows fort... how can we sabotage this effort?". They were in full-on EEE mode[1] then and wanted to subvert, not join, the web. JScript, ActiveX, ClickOnce, IE's idiosyncracies, etc. were all Microsoft's own efforts to get around the webification of everything. They lost, not just because of Google but also Netscape, Mozilla/Phoenix, eBay, Craigslist, Amazon, Match, MapQuest, etc. Nobody wanted to build desktop apps anymore once they could effortlessly reach everyone via the web without having to be a Microsoft vassal. Even ASP and IIS etc. insisted on having its own stack -- superior in some ways, but way less compatible and more expensive. Again their own doing. Free/cheap won out, I guess :) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish#Examples_by_Microsoft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguis... (edit: how the heck do you actually properly make hyperlinks on HN? I always struggle with this)

hulitu 3y ago

> web pages won out for their reach and ease of use, Your definition of "ease of use" is amazing. /s

solardev 3y ago
Heh, point taken. But I'd say overall it's easier for grandma to go to Gmail to check her email than have to figure out what this "Netscrape Communicator" is, install it, set up her "pop three" from her "eyesp" and then deal with a million viruses. Yeah, the web ain't perfect, but it did win... ads got worse, though =/

Shorel 3y ago

I remember, in some sense, Google (and also a group of anti Microsoft developers) encouraged web development as a strategy to break the Windows software monopoly. So it's not that Microsoft missed it, it is that a big shift happened and it was specifically targeted against them. There's nothing they could have done, except to embrace it, and they did. Visual Basic Script existed and was very popular for a while. IE4 ruled the web. The shift to web based technologies is a Google and an open source win. And it is also an inferior experience. That was the price we paid =)

solardev 3y ago
Even in the IE4 days, Microsoft was still very much "we'll only do as much web as necessary, but we can't lose our Windows fort... how can we sabotage this effort?". They were in full-on EEE mode[1] then and wanted to subvert, not join, the web. JScript, ActiveX, ClickOnce, IE's idiosyncracies, etc. were all Microsoft's own efforts to get around the webification of everything. They lost, not just because of Google but also Netscape, Mozilla/Phoenix, eBay, Craigslist, Amazon, Match, MapQuest, etc. Nobody wanted to build desktop apps anymore once they could effortlessly reach everyone via the web without having to be a Microsoft vassal. Even ASP and IIS etc. insisted on having its own stack -- superior in some ways, but way less compatible and more expensive. Again their own doing. Free/cheap won out, I guess :) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish#Examples_by_Microsoft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguis... (edit: how the heck do you actually properly make hyperlinks on HN? I always struggle with this)