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> I took it as “you can’t just use college to ‘find yourself’ anymore This FUD is exactly what I’m worried about. You took away a summary point that things are

by dahart 3y ago

> I took it as “you can’t just use college to ‘find yourself’ anymore This FUD is exactly what I’m worried about. You took away a summary point that things are changing and somehow bad for degree earners, when in fact the bottom third of college grads have always been worse off, they’re the bottom third. College was never a guarantee of financial success. Of course some people can go into tech with only a high school diploma and earn more than someone with a degree who does social work or poetry or anthropology. What does it say when you look at the stat that degrees earn 2x more than non-degrees, as a summary? To me it says that the dream of finding yourself in college is alive and well, that it’s not risky to go, if you have the means and the choice. To me it says the risk of not going is much higher than the risk of going. I agree with your point about choosing your major and sticking with your plan, if income is your goal, which is what most people try to do, I think. ~2x the income on average for 4 year degrees compared to high school is pretty big number, it surprised me, and it tells a different story than this article does. Before I read the Fed’s study I thought that college was maybe worth 15% more, on average (which would still be a nice boost…) The Fed’s report calls the extra income that degree holders earn the “income premium”, and they even point out that the income premium is quite robust and not changing much, at the same time they’re arguing that the “wealth premium” is going down. They go so far as to ask “Why Has the College Income Premium Been More Durable than the Wealth Premium?” As far as the US Federal Reserve goes, there is no question and no debate about whether degree holders are earning more. > Let’s never forget the elite are insulated from the problems of the future working class. Sure, that is true. But with ~40% college degree attainment in the US, we are not talking about the upper class at all here, we’re talking about the middle class too, and talking about education that is available to most people.

johnnyanmac 3y ago
>You took away a summary point that things are changing and somehow bad for degree earners, when in fact the bottom third of college grads have always been worse off, they’re the bottom third. Sure, but when they were worse off they wasted maybe 10-20k on a degree. Lot of money down the drain, but you could pay that off working at a minimum wage job. Now it's more on the order of 5x those numbers, while spending power of minimum wage is down. I didn't make that conclusion in a vacuum. >What does it say when you look at the stat that degrees earn 2x more than non-degrees, as a summary A general summary isn't a good idea on how to look at things, especially in a downturn. A general summary is that most "household's" average income is decent. But that's not who minimum wage is for, and also clouds the fact in the details that "households" have become more and more dual-income. Even if we didn't, we shouldn't ignore the 8% homelessness (random statistic, substitute it with the real govt statistic) and 20% minimum wage earners because the median is doing fine.
- dahart 3y ago
  Fair points. College is more expensive, and has been growing faster than inflation for decades, no question about it. Looks like avg. cost of attendance for a 4 year degree at a state school is 80-90k. I don’t know how many people get financial assistance, or how many experienced loan forgiveness. I do think the U.S. could afford to pay for college outright based on the fact that degree holders earn more, and thus pay more taxes. The lifetime taxes for this group exceeds the cost of college. > 8% homelessness FWIW, homelessness in the U.S. is currently about 0.18%
  - johnnyanmac 3y ago
    Yeah I absolutely agree. There will always be crazy expensive anything and education is no different. but for state institutions they shouldn't be beholden to the same trend chasing that a private school does. Especially when all those fancy amenities are partially coming out of taxpayer money to begin with. What are we paying for if they can take that money and still increase costs to new students?

by dahart 3y ago

johnnyanmac 3y ago

>You took away a summary point that things are changing and somehow bad for degree earners, when in fact the bottom third of college grads have always been worse off, they’re the bottom third. Sure, but when they were worse off they wasted maybe 10-20k on a degree. Lot of money down the drain, but you could pay that off working at a minimum wage job. Now it's more on the order of 5x those numbers, while spending power of minimum wage is down. I didn't make that conclusion in a vacuum. >What does it say when you look at the stat that degrees earn 2x more than non-degrees, as a summary A general summary isn't a good idea on how to look at things, especially in a downturn. A general summary is that most "household's" average income is decent. But that's not who minimum wage is for, and also clouds the fact in the details that "households" have become more and more dual-income. Even if we didn't, we shouldn't ignore the 8% homelessness (random statistic, substitute it with the real govt statistic) and 20% minimum wage earners because the median is doing fine.

dahart 3y ago
Fair points. College is more expensive, and has been growing faster than inflation for decades, no question about it. Looks like avg. cost of attendance for a 4 year degree at a state school is 80-90k. I don’t know how many people get financial assistance, or how many experienced loan forgiveness. I do think the U.S. could afford to pay for college outright based on the fact that degree holders earn more, and thus pay more taxes. The lifetime taxes for this group exceeds the cost of college. > 8% homelessness FWIW, homelessness in the U.S. is currently about 0.18%
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  Yeah I absolutely agree. There will always be crazy expensive anything and education is no different. but for state institutions they shouldn't be beholden to the same trend chasing that a private school does. Especially when all those fancy amenities are partially coming out of taxpayer money to begin with. What are we paying for if they can take that money and still increase costs to new students?