3 ms·

Shouting "Fire" in a crowded theater should be protected by the 1A ? That's dangerous, and the law should rightly restrict that

pelorat 3y ago
I think it is, you will get charged for something else, like inciting panic.
shadowgovt 3y ago
"The act of shouting fire when there are no reasonable grounds for believing one exists is not in itself a crime, and nor would it be rendered a crime merely by having been carried out inside a theatre, crowded or otherwise." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shouting_fire_in_a_crowded_theater https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shouting_fire_in_a_crowded_the...
hellojesus 3y ago
It is protected. See Brandenburg vs. Ohio. """ The Court in Brandenburg, in a per curiam opinion, held that Ohio's Syndicalism law violated the First Amendment. According to the Court, "constitutional guarantees of free speech and free press do not permit a State to forbid or proscribe advocacy of the use of force or of law violation except where such advocacy is directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action. """ https://supreme.findlaw.com/supreme-court-insights/brandenburg-v--ohio--permissible-restrictions-on-violent-speech.html https://supreme.findlaw.com/supreme-court-insights/brandenbu...
madeofpalk 3y ago
The law does not restrict that. "Shouting fire in a crowded theatre" is a myth. Anyone parroting this immediately outs themselves as lacking even the most basic knowledge of first ammendment. The court case where that quote came from was overturned 54 years ago! https://www.techdirt.com/tag/fire-in-a-crowded-theater/ https://www.techdirt.com/tag/fire-in-a-crowded-theater/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTsPgiUoBKA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTsPgiUoBKA https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/11/its-time-to-stop-using-the-fire-in-a-crowded-theater-quote/264449/ https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/11/its-tim...
- jasonjayr 3y ago
  I was not aware of that court case, but that is enlightening. I have much learning to do. But based on reading through the report at the findlaw article in a sibling comment, (in my opinion) I think it's a pretty dangerous precedent, and definitely a pillar of the breakdown of modern political discourse.
mcpackieh 3y ago
Your other responses have correctly explained why you're wrong but I just want to add a little bit more context: "Shouting fire in a crowded theater" was a euphemism by Justice Holmes to describe the act of protesting the draft. It did not come from a case about a theater and a human stampede as many naturally assume. It came from a case about a war protestor being arrested for telling people they should resist the draft (decidedly political speech.)

pelorat 3y ago

I think it is, you will get charged for something else, like inciting panic.

shadowgovt 3y ago

"The act of shouting fire when there are no reasonable grounds for believing one exists is not in itself a crime, and nor would it be rendered a crime merely by having been carried out inside a theatre, crowded or otherwise." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shouting_fire_in_a_crowded_theater https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shouting_fire_in_a_crowded_the...

hellojesus 3y ago

It is protected. See Brandenburg vs. Ohio. """ The Court in Brandenburg, in a per curiam opinion, held that Ohio's Syndicalism law violated the First Amendment. According to the Court, "constitutional guarantees of free speech and free press do not permit a State to forbid or proscribe advocacy of the use of force or of law violation except where such advocacy is directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action. """ https://supreme.findlaw.com/supreme-court-insights/brandenburg-v--ohio--permissible-restrictions-on-violent-speech.html https://supreme.findlaw.com/supreme-court-insights/brandenbu...

madeofpalk 3y ago

The law does not restrict that. "Shouting fire in a crowded theatre" is a myth. Anyone parroting this immediately outs themselves as lacking even the most basic knowledge of first ammendment. The court case where that quote came from was overturned 54 years ago! https://www.techdirt.com/tag/fire-in-a-crowded-theater/ https://www.techdirt.com/tag/fire-in-a-crowded-theater/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTsPgiUoBKA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTsPgiUoBKA https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/11/its-time-to-stop-using-the-fire-in-a-crowded-theater-quote/264449/ https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/11/its-tim...

jasonjayr 3y ago
I was not aware of that court case, but that is enlightening. I have much learning to do. But based on reading through the report at the findlaw article in a sibling comment, (in my opinion) I think it's a pretty dangerous precedent, and definitely a pillar of the breakdown of modern political discourse.

mcpackieh 3y ago

Your other responses have correctly explained why you're wrong but I just want to add a little bit more context: "Shouting fire in a crowded theater" was a euphemism by Justice Holmes to describe the act of protesting the draft. It did not come from a case about a theater and a human stampede as many naturally assume. It came from a case about a war protestor being arrested for telling people they should resist the draft (decidedly political speech.)