5 ms·

It's true that the only solution is to change the law. > Unless they are operating outside of the law, I don't fault "Big Tobacco" or any "Big Business" for, y

It's true that the only solution is to change the law. > Unless they are operating outside of the law, I don't fault "Big Tobacco" or any "Big Business" for, you know, operating a business. Why this casual dismissal? Operating a business. Are those the magic no-harm-done-here words? I'm not even saying that being “mad” about it would have any effect. But I still will argue for my right to be mad... Businesses can also lobby the government to keep or change laws. Is that also to be with dismissed with the same attitude? Like, oh Big Tobacco lobbied against your candidate that would enact some kind of law that would put a wedge in their business plan? Well—you know—they're just operating a business. Lobbying is an investment, and clearly they made a calculation that said that lobbying would make them more money.

digging 3y ago
The puzzle piece that usually gets missed in these conversations is that a business is a public danger. It has to be, inherently, because as we see "just trying to make a profit" consistently does harm at a certain scale. Making a profit and doing public good are completely separate imperatives, and when push comes to shove prioritizing profit will reduce the ability to do public good. A business can be too small or too inefficient to do much harm, but we are doomed (literally) if we can't wrap our heads around the fact that all businesses are enemies of the public (literally). So often the conversation simply reaches a full stop at "businesses are just doing what they do" as if we have to accept that - as if making a profit is a good thing. Similarly, fire is a danger to the public. It consumes and destroys things. That doesn't mean we've sworn off fire - on the contrary, we use it to make new dangers (pollution, primarily). It's just that we have developed measures to contain fire. Without measures to contain profit-seeking behavior, humans can't coexist with businesses safely.
- TheSpiceIsLife 3y ago
  Your comment comes off as thinly veiled misanthropy. What are you really promoting here? Going back to freezing in the dark?
  - digging 3y ago
    You're reading messages I didn't write. My point was stated openly. We can't allow businesses to operate without consideration for their impacts on the public (unless we're ok with being destroyed by them).
- pdonis 3y ago
  > a business is a public danger Every business? A mom and pop grocery store is a business. A old-fashioned diner that serves actual cooked food instead of microwaved pre-processed junk is a business. Are they public dangers? > Making a profit and doing public good are completely separate imperatives No, they're not. "Making a profit", in a sane economy, means creating wealth. Businesses are an essential tool for creating wealth. The problem is that we do not have a sane economy. We have governments that we have given vast regulatory powers, and that means corporations that are big enough to buy politicians can make a profit without creating wealth, by buying regulations that skew the economy in their favor. The effect of the regulations is not to make it easier to run a business but to make it harder, so much harder that only the large corporations can afford to do it--which means the mom and pop small businesses that actually create wealth can no longer exist. We also have governments that print money and give it to financial institutions in order to make cheap loans available to the same large corporations, so they can expand cheaply and drive out small business competitors. That's why we have big box stores and chain restaurants in strip malls next to freeways instead of mom and pop stores and old fashioned diners in actual town centers. But, as the saying goes, the problem is not that politicians can be bought but that they have something valuable to sell. As long as large corporations can buy regulations that favor them, they will. And as long as we let governments print money and give it to those they favor, that will just make things worse.
  - avgcorrection 3y ago
    > Every business? A mom and pop grocery store is a business. And what kind of animal would oppose those? They have parents/grand-parents in their name. Surely they must be completely wholesome.
    - pdonis 3y ago
      From your snark I gather that you don't think businesses provide any value. So I assume you don't use any goods or services provided by businesses, right?
      - avgcorrection 3y ago

digging 3y ago

The puzzle piece that usually gets missed in these conversations is that a business is a public danger. It has to be, inherently, because as we see "just trying to make a profit" consistently does harm at a certain scale. Making a profit and doing public good are completely separate imperatives, and when push comes to shove prioritizing profit will reduce the ability to do public good. A business can be too small or too inefficient to do much harm, but we are doomed (literally) if we can't wrap our heads around the fact that all businesses are enemies of the public (literally). So often the conversation simply reaches a full stop at "businesses are just doing what they do" as if we have to accept that - as if making a profit is a good thing. Similarly, fire is a danger to the public. It consumes and destroys things. That doesn't mean we've sworn off fire - on the contrary, we use it to make new dangers (pollution, primarily). It's just that we have developed measures to contain fire. Without measures to contain profit-seeking behavior, humans can't coexist with businesses safely.

TheSpiceIsLife 3y ago
Your comment comes off as thinly veiled misanthropy. What are you really promoting here? Going back to freezing in the dark?
- digging 3y ago
  You're reading messages I didn't write. My point was stated openly. We can't allow businesses to operate without consideration for their impacts on the public (unless we're ok with being destroyed by them).
pdonis 3y ago
> a business is a public danger Every business? A mom and pop grocery store is a business. A old-fashioned diner that serves actual cooked food instead of microwaved pre-processed junk is a business. Are they public dangers? > Making a profit and doing public good are completely separate imperatives No, they're not. "Making a profit", in a sane economy, means creating wealth. Businesses are an essential tool for creating wealth. The problem is that we do not have a sane economy. We have governments that we have given vast regulatory powers, and that means corporations that are big enough to buy politicians can make a profit without creating wealth, by buying regulations that skew the economy in their favor. The effect of the regulations is not to make it easier to run a business but to make it harder, so much harder that only the large corporations can afford to do it--which means the mom and pop small businesses that actually create wealth can no longer exist. We also have governments that print money and give it to financial institutions in order to make cheap loans available to the same large corporations, so they can expand cheaply and drive out small business competitors. That's why we have big box stores and chain restaurants in strip malls next to freeways instead of mom and pop stores and old fashioned diners in actual town centers. But, as the saying goes, the problem is not that politicians can be bought but that they have something valuable to sell. As long as large corporations can buy regulations that favor them, they will. And as long as we let governments print money and give it to those they favor, that will just make things worse.
- avgcorrection 3y ago
  > Every business? A mom and pop grocery store is a business. And what kind of animal would oppose those? They have parents/grand-parents in their name. Surely they must be completely wholesome.
  - pdonis 3y ago
    From your snark I gather that you don't think businesses provide any value. So I assume you don't use any goods or services provided by businesses, right?
    - avgcorrection 3y ago