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I severely disagree, gcc code should have stayed plain and simple C (without the latest ISO abominations):… If projects like Linux stuck to plain and simple C

I severely disagree, gcc code should have stayed plain and simple C (without the latest ISO abominations):… If projects like Linux stuck to plain and simple C then it wouldn’t even matter what GCC was written in. The fact that Linux doesn’t even try to do so, and that it is hardly unique in that choice, suggests that maybe “plain and simple C” is not so practical. …the cure is worse than the disease. c++ is not a sane language, … it is NEVER the solution. I think it should not be taught anymore as its syntax complexity is toxic for mind sanity. I’ll never understand the withering criticism of C++ on the part of C programmers and/or C aficionados. For instance, suppose we take everything you say about C++ as true, then what does that say about C? Virtually anywhere C++ is used C could be used as well, and every line of C++ represents a choice to not write C. In other words the insanity of C++ is seen by many smart and serious people as better than C, including by the stewards of every major C compiler today. Ultimately knocking down C++ to build up C does nothing but make the C community look like dilettantes trying to convince themselves more than anyone else. The truth, as bitter as it may be, is that C++ genuinely scales and composes better than C. And C programmers know it too, at least on some level.

sylware 3y ago
How could you compare the grotesque and absurd syntax complexity of c++ with C? Do you realize those are not on the same order of magnitude. It is reasonable to write a naive C compiler alternative with few resources (even a C compiler with a few basic optimizations passes is reasonable), and totally insane, at a pathological level, for a naive c++ compiler alternative. C is not better, it is less worse and its syntax is already way too complex. The less worse compromise, for now. If you cannot understand why many prefer to avoid using such language for those very reasons, and there are more (just browse the web), I am very sorry, I cannot do much more.
- SubjectToChange 3y ago
  I am keenly aware of how complex C++ is. It is reasonable to write a naive C compiler alternative with few resources… and totally insane, at a pathological level, for a naive c++ compiler alternative. Sure, but why should I, as a language end user, care about implementation difficulty? The fact that C prioritizes implementation simplicity over users is a grave sin, especially when in practice the vast majority of C programmers are using a vendor with substantial resources. Also, if C is so easy to implement, then it shouldn’t matter what Clang, GCC, ICC, MSVC, NVCC, IBM XL, etc, are implemented in, right? Just roll your own C compiler and bootstrap from that. The less worse compromise, for now. Languages are more than syntax. If you cannot understand why many prefer to avoid using such language for those very reasons,… I’m not saying anyone must like C++, nor is it any mystery why many do not. Now, if you can’t understand why many people choose C++, including the GCC developers, then I suggest you charitably evaluate their claims for doing so. …I am very sorry, I cannot do much more. Quite patronizing of you, but par for the course as far as Cnile rhetoric goes. Just know this, C may outlive us all but C++ will outlive C.

sylware 3y ago

How could you compare the grotesque and absurd syntax complexity of c++ with C? Do you realize those are not on the same order of magnitude. It is reasonable to write a naive C compiler alternative with few resources (even a C compiler with a few basic optimizations passes is reasonable), and totally insane, at a pathological level, for a naive c++ compiler alternative. C is not better, it is less worse and its syntax is already way too complex. The less worse compromise, for now. If you cannot understand why many prefer to avoid using such language for those very reasons, and there are more (just browse the web), I am very sorry, I cannot do much more.

SubjectToChange 3y ago
I am keenly aware of how complex C++ is. It is reasonable to write a naive C compiler alternative with few resources… and totally insane, at a pathological level, for a naive c++ compiler alternative. Sure, but why should I, as a language end user, care about implementation difficulty? The fact that C prioritizes implementation simplicity over users is a grave sin, especially when in practice the vast majority of C programmers are using a vendor with substantial resources. Also, if C is so easy to implement, then it shouldn’t matter what Clang, GCC, ICC, MSVC, NVCC, IBM XL, etc, are implemented in, right? Just roll your own C compiler and bootstrap from that. The less worse compromise, for now. Languages are more than syntax. If you cannot understand why many prefer to avoid using such language for those very reasons,… I’m not saying anyone must like C++, nor is it any mystery why many do not. Now, if you can’t understand why many people choose C++, including the GCC developers, then I suggest you charitably evaluate their claims for doing so. …I am very sorry, I cannot do much more. Quite patronizing of you, but par for the course as far as Cnile rhetoric goes. Just know this, C may outlive us all but C++ will outlive C.