6 ms·

It's against the guidelines to be dismissive, but there really is no other response. Especially when you left read the follow-up sentence: > Offloading cogniti

by tgv 3y ago

It's against the guidelines to be dismissive, but there really is no other response. Especially when you left read the follow-up sentence: > Offloading cognitive effort, such as reminders like these, is a great way automation can assist humanity. Does that pass for journalism? I really don't want to read the rest of the article.

hosteur 3y ago
This is where I stopped reading as well. This would be a much better article for this thread: https://movementforanopenweb.com/googles-privacy-sandbox-a-closer-look-at-claims-and-contradictions/ https://movementforanopenweb.com/googles-privacy-sandbox-a-c...
- wolverine876 3y ago
  How do you know which article is better, without reading them?
  - hosteur 3y ago
    I think it was rather obvious from the context of this thread that the quoted text indicates that the article linked is of very poor quality. It is not necessary to read the full article before knowing something is of poor quality which is trivially known by anyone who has started reading a book or article and then decided it was not worth their time. I read the article that I suggested was better and I stand by that statement.
    - wolverine876 3y ago
      > I think it was rather obvious from the context of this thread that the quoted text indicates that the article linked is of very poor quality. I read the article; it's actually one of the better pieces I've read in that domain (tech news for the general public) IMHO. People say those things (take-downs) about everything on HN. Don't trust the threads - why would you trust anonymous people writing one-sentence hot-take rants, some of whom probably also didn't read the article and are just repeating things. The Internet tide isn't a reliable indicator of anything, any more than the tide at the beach.
SpikyBlackHard 3y ago
I quit at what is a cookie. It's 2020 or so, my dead grandparents knew what a cookie is and it's time to go to work anyway.
- bee_rider 3y ago
  That “or so” is getting a little stretched :(
- mulmen 3y ago
  You missed out. The conclusion is actually pretty reasonable.
- wolverine876 3y ago
  That far overestimates what the general public understands about what you do every day. Most people have zero idea and less interest.
alexvitkov 3y ago
On the bright side, if something's gonna get your aunt to care about online privacy, it will be creepy and disgusting behaviour like an online advertiser based on the other side of the world keeping track of your mouth hygiene for your own convenience
lnxg33k1 3y ago
"Academic rigour, journalistic flair"
marcus0x62 3y ago
> Does that pass for journalism? I think it passes for a press release disguised as a news article.
- wolverine876 3y ago
  And that passes for a comment. Google didn't write a press release that raises questions - insightful ones that I hardly ever see in other coverage - about their privacy practices and recommends competitors such as Firefox and Brave.
  - jurynulifcation 3y ago
    Which insightful questions did you see in this article? In which ways did they provoke your thoughts?
    - wolverine876 3y ago
      They raised the issue, which I hardly every see raised, that disabling the feature may not disable data collection. The gave compelling examples of both sides, rather than dismissing one or being inflammatory - the dental hygine example was great, a little personal. They clearly and efficiently spelled out the different modes. They brought up Firefox and the much more obscure Brave, and even more privacy-oriented browsers. It was great. I'd give it to lay-people who were interested, and as a technical person I don't need to read more.
      - inetknght 3y ago
        > the dental hygine example was great, a little personal. It can be better solved with a calendar notification. No privacy violated and you can add your own information to your notification: you liked this toothbrush, your dentist recommended that toothbrush, you didn't like this store, blah blah. Is there value in that? Sure. Does that mean that value must be extracted by a business? No.
        3y ago
xg15 3y ago
It's actually worth reading the article to the end, because otherwise you'd be missing the amazing final paragraph: > Lastly, it’s good to remember nothing truly comes for free. Software costs money to develop. If you’re not paying towards that, then it’s likely you – or your data – are the product. We need to revolutionise how we think about our own data and what value it truly holds. Ignoring the fact that this is not how it works - there are plenty of services where you pay and still are the product - the last sentence makes it clear that the author sees privacy as the problem, not tracking.
- kjkjadksj 3y ago
  I don’t pay for bash yet I have plenty of excellent tooling in it thats free, and I’m not the product. Software can be released freely just like a poem can be. The people who develop popular software like one of the functions in bash I use for free probably aren’t hurting for work I’d imagine.
  - robertlagrant 3y ago
    They're working, but not necessarily getting paid.
  - wolverine876 3y ago
    > The people who develop popular software like one of the functions in bash I use for free probably aren’t hurting for work I’d imagine. I wouldn't assume that; I would donate what you can. I've been to two pay-what-you-can theater performances recently. How can I not give those people - who value every dime, who many others stiff, and where you know 100% goes to a worthy cause - more than the corporate productions, who couldn't care less about me or community and where the money goes to some billionaires and shareholders who couldn't care less about art and look forward to AI and cost-cutting layoffs. The last thing I want is the local artists, who do it for the art, to not see people's love and appreciation or to stop. Around 5-10 years ago, IIRC the maintainer of a relatively well-known Linux distro moved home to (Minnesota?) because they had no health insurance and couldn't afford the Bay Area (or something like that, my memory is sketchy). Also don't forget the sh-t-ton of abuse open source maintainers take.
mulmen 3y ago
I have my oral care products on subscribe and save. Automation does make my life better by offloading cognitive load. Such automation doesn’t require third party cookies but the article doesn’t make that claim. The article seems pretty reasonable to me actually. It establishes what a cookie is, then contrasts that with what Chrome is doing, then explains the tradeoffs and Google’s claims, then gives the reader options to make their own choice. Seems like good journalism to me.
- jurynulifcation 3y ago
  But it's so obviously ideologically bent against privacy that it reads more like manufacturing consent than it does "giving the reader options to make their own choice."
  - mulmen 3y ago
    Did we read the same article? It came across as very pro-privacy and anti-tracking to me. It’s well written in the sense that it explains the issue to a general audience without resorting to breathless scare mongering.
    - jurynulifcation 3y ago
      "We need to revolutionize how we think about our data and what value it holds" (last sentence) reads like so much sleeper propaganda for The Selfish Ledger style abuses. I don't think any discussion of the trade-offs between privacy and tracking is complete unless the horrifying abuses of tracking are also discussed, like government contractors spying on people without cause.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - mulmen 3y ago
        > "We need to revolutionize how we think about our data and what value it holds" (last sentence) The last line of the article for me is different: “We need to revolutionise how we think about our own data and what value it truly holds.” (Emphasis mine) Which in context: > Lastly, it’s good to remember nothing truly comes for free. Software costs money to develop. If you’re not paying towards that, then it’s likely you – or your data – are the product. We need to revolutionise how we think about our own data and what value it truly holds. Is a very clear pro-privacy statement to me. This is our data and is owned by us and we should revolutionize how we think about that.
tzs 3y ago
Are you unaware that many people actually specifically seek out, and even pay for, software and hardware to handle such reminders for themselves?

by tgv 3y ago

hosteur 3y ago

This is where I stopped reading as well. This would be a much better article for this thread: https://movementforanopenweb.com/googles-privacy-sandbox-a-closer-look-at-claims-and-contradictions/ https://movementforanopenweb.com/googles-privacy-sandbox-a-c...

wolverine876 3y ago
How do you know which article is better, without reading them?
- hosteur 3y ago
  I think it was rather obvious from the context of this thread that the quoted text indicates that the article linked is of very poor quality. It is not necessary to read the full article before knowing something is of poor quality which is trivially known by anyone who has started reading a book or article and then decided it was not worth their time. I read the article that I suggested was better and I stand by that statement.
  - wolverine876 3y ago
    > I think it was rather obvious from the context of this thread that the quoted text indicates that the article linked is of very poor quality. I read the article; it's actually one of the better pieces I've read in that domain (tech news for the general public) IMHO. People say those things (take-downs) about everything on HN. Don't trust the threads - why would you trust anonymous people writing one-sentence hot-take rants, some of whom probably also didn't read the article and are just repeating things. The Internet tide isn't a reliable indicator of anything, any more than the tide at the beach.

SpikyBlackHard 3y ago

I quit at what is a cookie. It's 2020 or so, my dead grandparents knew what a cookie is and it's time to go to work anyway.

bee_rider 3y ago
That “or so” is getting a little stretched :(
mulmen 3y ago
You missed out. The conclusion is actually pretty reasonable.
wolverine876 3y ago
That far overestimates what the general public understands about what you do every day. Most people have zero idea and less interest.

alexvitkov 3y ago

On the bright side, if something's gonna get your aunt to care about online privacy, it will be creepy and disgusting behaviour like an online advertiser based on the other side of the world keeping track of your mouth hygiene for your own convenience

lnxg33k1 3y ago

"Academic rigour, journalistic flair"

marcus0x62 3y ago

> Does that pass for journalism? I think it passes for a press release disguised as a news article.

wolverine876 3y ago
And that passes for a comment. Google didn't write a press release that raises questions - insightful ones that I hardly ever see in other coverage - about their privacy practices and recommends competitors such as Firefox and Brave.
- jurynulifcation 3y ago
  Which insightful questions did you see in this article? In which ways did they provoke your thoughts?
  - wolverine876 3y ago
    They raised the issue, which I hardly every see raised, that disabling the feature may not disable data collection. The gave compelling examples of both sides, rather than dismissing one or being inflammatory - the dental hygine example was great, a little personal. They clearly and efficiently spelled out the different modes. They brought up Firefox and the much more obscure Brave, and even more privacy-oriented browsers. It was great. I'd give it to lay-people who were interested, and as a technical person I don't need to read more.
    - inetknght 3y ago
      > the dental hygine example was great, a little personal. It can be better solved with a calendar notification. No privacy violated and you can add your own information to your notification: you liked this toothbrush, your dentist recommended that toothbrush, you didn't like this store, blah blah. Is there value in that? Sure. Does that mean that value must be extracted by a business? No.
      - 3y ago

xg15 3y ago

It's actually worth reading the article to the end, because otherwise you'd be missing the amazing final paragraph: > Lastly, it’s good to remember nothing truly comes for free. Software costs money to develop. If you’re not paying towards that, then it’s likely you – or your data – are the product. We need to revolutionise how we think about our own data and what value it truly holds. Ignoring the fact that this is not how it works - there are plenty of services where you pay and still are the product - the last sentence makes it clear that the author sees privacy as the problem, not tracking.

kjkjadksj 3y ago
I don’t pay for bash yet I have plenty of excellent tooling in it thats free, and I’m not the product. Software can be released freely just like a poem can be. The people who develop popular software like one of the functions in bash I use for free probably aren’t hurting for work I’d imagine.
- robertlagrant 3y ago
  They're working, but not necessarily getting paid.
- wolverine876 3y ago
  > The people who develop popular software like one of the functions in bash I use for free probably aren’t hurting for work I’d imagine. I wouldn't assume that; I would donate what you can. I've been to two pay-what-you-can theater performances recently. How can I not give those people - who value every dime, who many others stiff, and where you know 100% goes to a worthy cause - more than the corporate productions, who couldn't care less about me or community and where the money goes to some billionaires and shareholders who couldn't care less about art and look forward to AI and cost-cutting layoffs. The last thing I want is the local artists, who do it for the art, to not see people's love and appreciation or to stop. Around 5-10 years ago, IIRC the maintainer of a relatively well-known Linux distro moved home to (Minnesota?) because they had no health insurance and couldn't afford the Bay Area (or something like that, my memory is sketchy). Also don't forget the sh-t-ton of abuse open source maintainers take.

mulmen 3y ago

I have my oral care products on subscribe and save. Automation does make my life better by offloading cognitive load. Such automation doesn’t require third party cookies but the article doesn’t make that claim. The article seems pretty reasonable to me actually. It establishes what a cookie is, then contrasts that with what Chrome is doing, then explains the tradeoffs and Google’s claims, then gives the reader options to make their own choice. Seems like good journalism to me.

jurynulifcation 3y ago
But it's so obviously ideologically bent against privacy that it reads more like manufacturing consent than it does "giving the reader options to make their own choice."
- mulmen 3y ago
  Did we read the same article? It came across as very pro-privacy and anti-tracking to me. It’s well written in the sense that it explains the issue to a general audience without resorting to breathless scare mongering.
  - jurynulifcation 3y ago
    "We need to revolutionize how we think about our data and what value it holds" (last sentence) reads like so much sleeper propaganda for The Selfish Ledger style abuses. I don't think any discussion of the trade-offs between privacy and tracking is complete unless the horrifying abuses of tracking are also discussed, like government contractors spying on people without cause.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - mulmen 3y ago
      > "We need to revolutionize how we think about our data and what value it holds" (last sentence) The last line of the article for me is different: “We need to revolutionise how we think about our own data and what value it truly holds.” (Emphasis mine) Which in context: > Lastly, it’s good to remember nothing truly comes for free. Software costs money to develop. If you’re not paying towards that, then it’s likely you – or your data – are the product. We need to revolutionise how we think about our own data and what value it truly holds. Is a very clear pro-privacy statement to me. This is our data and is owned by us and we should revolutionize how we think about that.

tzs 3y ago

Are you unaware that many people actually specifically seek out, and even pay for, software and hardware to handle such reminders for themselves?