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Why isn't there a standard for swappable batteries in electric vehicles? You could have stations like petrol has, pull up, swap out your battery for a fully cha

Why isn't there a standard for swappable batteries in electric vehicles? You could have stations like petrol has, pull up, swap out your battery for a fully charged one and be on the move again in seconds.

keep_reading 3y ago
Well designed battery packs have coolant running through them
clouddrover 3y ago
That's what they're doing in China: https://cnevpost.com/2021/05/10/battery-swap-national-standard-to-go-into-effect-nov-1/ https://cnevpost.com/2021/05/10/battery-swap-national-standa... https://cnevpost.com/2021/08/17/china-auto-association-seeks-comments-on-new-swap-station-standard-led-by-entities-including-nio/ https://cnevpost.com/2021/08/17/china-auto-association-seeks... Nio also has swap stations outside of China. It can swap the battery in 6 minutes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmWL1hZQmD0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmWL1hZQmD0 Gogoro does swap stations for scooters: https://www.gogoro.com/gogoro-network/ https://www.gogoro.com/gogoro-network/ Other manufacturers are standardizing swappable batteries for motorbikes: https://www.rideapart.com/news/545061/honda-sets-big-four-standard/ https://www.rideapart.com/news/545061/honda-sets-big-four-st...
pornel 3y ago
It's been done successfully for motorbikes (gogoro). Nio has swapping stations for cars, but they take over 5 minutes for a swap. Automakers are looking to make batteries a structural component (save weight), and want to make batteries lower-profile to avoid raising floor higher (otherwise seating position or headroom loses). So removable batteries are a trade-off. OTOH higher-end BEVs can charge to 80% under 20 minutes. So the speed difference is getting smaller, and probably it's easier and cheaper to just roll with charging.
Kirby64 3y ago
Swappable batteries inherently would come with compromises. The biggest of which is that swapping batteries means you get a battery of unknown health. Nobody wants that. Also it inherently limits design sizing. Batteries already try to cram every single cell into their packaging, which would have to be reduced by a swappable battery system.
- matt-attack 3y ago
  Why would it be unknown? The charging system could directly measure its health and confirm its within nominal specs. Plus you only need the new battery to be good for the duration of one trip. There’s always a new one around the corner. It’s like fretting about the quality of one tank of gas. In the long term it’s meaningless because it’s a fleeting problem and will just remedy itself on the next fill up.
  - Kirby64 3y ago
    Batteries have a given lifespan and number of cycles. If my swapped battery isn't either the same mileage or better, then I'm literally degrading the quality of my car by swapping batteries. I have no guarantees I'd get the same one back on the return trip. This is equivalent to swapping a motor in a gasoline car, not the gas itself. What happens if I swap to a motor that has 100k miles on it on my brand new car? What about one that was poorly maintained (the EV equivalent would be... discharged to low SoC, kept at high SoC often, charged only using DCFC, etc)? You can't detect all of these things or directly measure them, but just like changing the oil too infrequently in a motor they do damage the battery over time. If somehow you could actually always support 'a next battery swap fixes it', then you would have to charge an extremely high cost for such battery swap. There's no way around that.
Stratoscope 3y ago
Tesla tried this ten years ago and gave up on the idea: https://www.google.com/search?q=tesla+battery+swap https://www.google.com/search?q=tesla+battery+swap I'm not saying it isn't feasible, just that it didn't work out for them at the time.

keep_reading 3y ago

Well designed battery packs have coolant running through them

clouddrover 3y ago

That's what they're doing in China: https://cnevpost.com/2021/05/10/battery-swap-national-standard-to-go-into-effect-nov-1/ https://cnevpost.com/2021/05/10/battery-swap-national-standa... https://cnevpost.com/2021/08/17/china-auto-association-seeks-comments-on-new-swap-station-standard-led-by-entities-including-nio/ https://cnevpost.com/2021/08/17/china-auto-association-seeks... Nio also has swap stations outside of China. It can swap the battery in 6 minutes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmWL1hZQmD0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmWL1hZQmD0 Gogoro does swap stations for scooters: https://www.gogoro.com/gogoro-network/ https://www.gogoro.com/gogoro-network/ Other manufacturers are standardizing swappable batteries for motorbikes: https://www.rideapart.com/news/545061/honda-sets-big-four-standard/ https://www.rideapart.com/news/545061/honda-sets-big-four-st...

pornel 3y ago

It's been done successfully for motorbikes (gogoro). Nio has swapping stations for cars, but they take over 5 minutes for a swap. Automakers are looking to make batteries a structural component (save weight), and want to make batteries lower-profile to avoid raising floor higher (otherwise seating position or headroom loses). So removable batteries are a trade-off. OTOH higher-end BEVs can charge to 80% under 20 minutes. So the speed difference is getting smaller, and probably it's easier and cheaper to just roll with charging.

Kirby64 3y ago

Swappable batteries inherently would come with compromises. The biggest of which is that swapping batteries means you get a battery of unknown health. Nobody wants that. Also it inherently limits design sizing. Batteries already try to cram every single cell into their packaging, which would have to be reduced by a swappable battery system.

matt-attack 3y ago
Why would it be unknown? The charging system could directly measure its health and confirm its within nominal specs. Plus you only need the new battery to be good for the duration of one trip. There’s always a new one around the corner. It’s like fretting about the quality of one tank of gas. In the long term it’s meaningless because it’s a fleeting problem and will just remedy itself on the next fill up.
- Kirby64 3y ago
  Batteries have a given lifespan and number of cycles. If my swapped battery isn't either the same mileage or better, then I'm literally degrading the quality of my car by swapping batteries. I have no guarantees I'd get the same one back on the return trip. This is equivalent to swapping a motor in a gasoline car, not the gas itself. What happens if I swap to a motor that has 100k miles on it on my brand new car? What about one that was poorly maintained (the EV equivalent would be... discharged to low SoC, kept at high SoC often, charged only using DCFC, etc)? You can't detect all of these things or directly measure them, but just like changing the oil too infrequently in a motor they do damage the battery over time. If somehow you could actually always support 'a next battery swap fixes it', then you would have to charge an extremely high cost for such battery swap. There's no way around that.

Stratoscope 3y ago

Tesla tried this ten years ago and gave up on the idea: https://www.google.com/search?q=tesla+battery+swap https://www.google.com/search?q=tesla+battery+swap I'm not saying it isn't feasible, just that it didn't work out for them at the time.