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Your statistic is even more misleading because in the non-graduates category you are lumping in people that couldn't make it to college even if they wanted. Th

by erfgh 3y ago

Your statistic is even more misleading because in the non-graduates category you are lumping in people that couldn't make it to college even if they wanted. The relevant comparison is graduates versus people that voluntarily skipped college even though they could get a degree if they chose so.

dahart 3y ago
It’s not my statistic. It’s the Fed’s. They have a longer version of this report where they account for and try to calculate the causal value of college, which more or less does exactly what you’re suggesting. It’s in section III here: https://www.stlouisfed.org/-/media/project/frbstl/stlouisfed/files/pdfs/hfs/is-college-worth-it/emmons_kent_ricketts_college_still_worth_it.pdf https://www.stlouisfed.org/-/media/project/frbstl/stlouisfed...
AussieWog93 3y ago
>Your statistic is even more misleading because in the non-graduates category you are lumping in people that couldn't make it to college even if they wanted. As someone who owns a business doing something I'm way overqualified for, this is something that's way too often overlooked. A slightly-above-average Electrical Engineer (earning, say $150k pa) might be as competent as someone in the top 5-10% of Electricians (who can own their own businesses and earn $250k+). Yet when we're looking for a career for our kids, we tend to compare averages rather than their personal outcomes.
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  >we tend to compare averages rather than their personal outcomes. because it can be hard to be honest about our loved ones. Everyone wants to say Bobby is a genius and can grow up to be president. But having a 2.3 GPA and no drive in life means getting through the first year of community college will be a challenge, at least a challenge for Bobby. There are core questions to answer before we keep pushing Bobbby down such a path but his support network may never ask those questions to begin with. Meanwhile, Andy with a 4.0 GPA, nationally acclaimed talent, and mutliple top college acceptances has the world as his oyster. He could probably go to art school and have the drive to end up in a highly successful career, even if that type of schooling tends to end up as one of the worst ROI. OFC, Andy's support network may be pushing him to be a doctor or Lawyer so there's still issues there.
- red-iron-pine 3y ago
  I've known electricians working in data centers that made more than I did -- as the data center manager. I was also in charge of service delivery and some ISP/networking functions. But. Dude was 1) union, 2) worked 6 days a week to make that cash, and 3) they were long, hard days. This was also in the big data center areas outside of DC (NoVA) and probably wouldn't be a thing in rural Indiana, or Outer Nowhere, NSW. FWIW I also know a plumber who owns their own business and had several underlings and they were making well north of ~300k takehome doing mostly construction/new build plumbing work. But again, long, hard days.

by erfgh 3y ago

dahart 3y ago

It’s not my statistic. It’s the Fed’s. They have a longer version of this report where they account for and try to calculate the causal value of college, which more or less does exactly what you’re suggesting. It’s in section III here: https://www.stlouisfed.org/-/media/project/frbstl/stlouisfed/files/pdfs/hfs/is-college-worth-it/emmons_kent_ricketts_college_still_worth_it.pdf https://www.stlouisfed.org/-/media/project/frbstl/stlouisfed...

AussieWog93 3y ago

>Your statistic is even more misleading because in the non-graduates category you are lumping in people that couldn't make it to college even if they wanted. As someone who owns a business doing something I'm way overqualified for, this is something that's way too often overlooked. A slightly-above-average Electrical Engineer (earning, say $150k pa) might be as competent as someone in the top 5-10% of Electricians (who can own their own businesses and earn $250k+). Yet when we're looking for a career for our kids, we tend to compare averages rather than their personal outcomes.

johnnyanmac 3y ago
>we tend to compare averages rather than their personal outcomes. because it can be hard to be honest about our loved ones. Everyone wants to say Bobby is a genius and can grow up to be president. But having a 2.3 GPA and no drive in life means getting through the first year of community college will be a challenge, at least a challenge for Bobby. There are core questions to answer before we keep pushing Bobbby down such a path but his support network may never ask those questions to begin with. Meanwhile, Andy with a 4.0 GPA, nationally acclaimed talent, and mutliple top college acceptances has the world as his oyster. He could probably go to art school and have the drive to end up in a highly successful career, even if that type of schooling tends to end up as one of the worst ROI. OFC, Andy's support network may be pushing him to be a doctor or Lawyer so there's still issues there.
red-iron-pine 3y ago
I've known electricians working in data centers that made more than I did -- as the data center manager. I was also in charge of service delivery and some ISP/networking functions. But. Dude was 1) union, 2) worked 6 days a week to make that cash, and 3) they were long, hard days. This was also in the big data center areas outside of DC (NoVA) and probably wouldn't be a thing in rural Indiana, or Outer Nowhere, NSW. FWIW I also know a plumber who owns their own business and had several underlings and they were making well north of ~300k takehome doing mostly construction/new build plumbing work. But again, long, hard days.