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I believe it. I've used linux desktops for 20 years also and command line is definitely a must on a daily basis. Ive also used Windows and agree that it just fa

by sam345 3y ago

I believe it. I've used linux desktops for 20 years also and command line is definitely a must on a daily basis. Ive also used Windows and agree that it just fades into background. Windows 10/11 definitely less paiinful on the desktop. These days with better integration with and tools for Linux cli, Windows is definitely my preferred gui productivity environment. Many Linux fans don't know better or won't admit it because hate tends to blind.

mixmastamyk 3y ago
I just set up Windows and spent an entire week googling how to tame it. Turns out dism.exe at the CLI is required to make it free up 20 to 30GB! of disk space it was wasting. Many, many hours and late nights figuring out how to turn off telemetry, Edge and more. Multiple Group policy editor settings to force it to do what is asked and no more. For some reason updates and uninstalls take forever and uninstalls can’t be batched. (A powsh I found didn’t work) I could go on… “Fades in the background” my ass. :-P
- mrweasel 3y ago
  > spent an entire week googling how to tame it Part of the reason Windows doesn't fade into the background for you is that you insist on fighting it, you're tweaking stuff you should just leave alone... according to Microsoft. Physically it's not possible for me to use Windows, my hand cramps up, not completely sure why that happens, but it provides a constant physical reminder that I'm using Windows.
- cbozeman 3y ago
  2TB 2.5" SATA SSDs are $61. 2TB M.2 2280 NVMe SSDs are $63. Why are you worried about 20-30 GB again??
  - mixmastamyk 3y ago
    Bandwidth - was building a VM. A 10GB VM is much more convenient than 40GB one, to move copy, share, run from network drive etc. And yes, a few older drives are kinda small here. Laptop vendors overcharge on storage so most of ours have a half TB, which goes fast. We could buy a number of new drives, or we could look up an esoteric CLI and free up 30g.
    - cbozeman 3y ago
      Ahhh yes, now that makes sense. Point taken!
anothernewdude 3y ago
Nonsense. They've moved so much stuff about all my windows knowledge from 7 is useless. You'll be in the same spot when 12 comes out.
- bmicraft 3y ago
  I'm generally onboard with hating on windows, but windows 7 was 14 years ago. (Almost) everything software realted has changed in that time, not just Windows.
  - anothernewdude 3y ago
    Well it's hardly my fault that I've not had to use windows in the past 10 years. And no, not every UI has made needless changes since then.
bergon 3y ago
Could it be because you're more comfortable with the CLI than any GUI alternative? E.g. I wouldn't go clicking about for installing packages when it's just one line away. I know many power users of Windows that bring up their terminal frequently as well.
modo_mario 3y ago
>I've used linux desktops for 20 years also and command line is definitely a must on a daily basis. What were you using if I may ask? I use manjaro with plasma and.... idk I really don't have to use the commandline much if at all when i'm not coding. Last time I was forced to was a few months ago in fact with an old niche wifi dongle that didn't work without some tinkering but this now works out of the box as well.
zelphirkalt 3y ago
> Windows is definitely my preferred gui productivity environment lmao, not because I don't believe you really think what you write, but because how user hostile everything in Windows seems to me, if you only want to change a single setting. It will be hidden behind 3 level deep settings dialogs and a "material design" flat links connecting those setting dialogs, so almost no visual indication, to make things stand out. It is horrible UI design. Basically any modern GNU/Linux DE will offer more feedback and visibility in their settings dialogs and windows. Whenever I have to change any settings on Windows, I get a feeling of dread, because I know I will be searching for that setting. And never is the search any help, because they will name things different than I expect or it simply will not find the settings dialog I need to change that setting. It is almost like they intentionally hide the settings ... Windows feels like a system that protects clueless users from themselves.
- yomlica8 3y ago
  The main problem with Windows' terrible settings is that they are constantly changing. So when you search for how to change something all the instructions are obsolete.
  - hakfoo 3y ago
    There's a frustrating trend across the software industry-- chasing that hypothetical "next billion" users by removing customization, complicating discovery, and nerfing advanced features. I'm sure Windows 11 works perfectly if you teleported in from a dimension without computers and never had to unlearn any prior experiences. You'll use the defaults, which of course expose you to the most possible Microsoft revenue streams, and not notice the friction points. It's probably a net positive for that user if they make customization limited and frustrating-- don't give him any paint and he can't paint himself into a corner, resulting in an expensive support session. The most cynical take on this is that the advanced users, who are suffering from the constant abuse from the software undermining attempts at personalization and breaking workflows, are not a priority. They've already paid, and are unlikely to suddenly turn into a new revenue centre.

by sam345 3y ago

mixmastamyk 3y ago

I just set up Windows and spent an entire week googling how to tame it. Turns out dism.exe at the CLI is required to make it free up 20 to 30GB! of disk space it was wasting. Many, many hours and late nights figuring out how to turn off telemetry, Edge and more. Multiple Group policy editor settings to force it to do what is asked and no more. For some reason updates and uninstalls take forever and uninstalls can’t be batched. (A powsh I found didn’t work) I could go on… “Fades in the background” my ass. :-P

mrweasel 3y ago
> spent an entire week googling how to tame it Part of the reason Windows doesn't fade into the background for you is that you insist on fighting it, you're tweaking stuff you should just leave alone... according to Microsoft. Physically it's not possible for me to use Windows, my hand cramps up, not completely sure why that happens, but it provides a constant physical reminder that I'm using Windows.
cbozeman 3y ago
2TB 2.5" SATA SSDs are $61. 2TB M.2 2280 NVMe SSDs are $63. Why are you worried about 20-30 GB again??
- mixmastamyk 3y ago
  Bandwidth - was building a VM. A 10GB VM is much more convenient than 40GB one, to move copy, share, run from network drive etc. And yes, a few older drives are kinda small here. Laptop vendors overcharge on storage so most of ours have a half TB, which goes fast. We could buy a number of new drives, or we could look up an esoteric CLI and free up 30g.
  - cbozeman 3y ago
    Ahhh yes, now that makes sense. Point taken!

anothernewdude 3y ago

Nonsense. They've moved so much stuff about all my windows knowledge from 7 is useless. You'll be in the same spot when 12 comes out.

bmicraft 3y ago
I'm generally onboard with hating on windows, but windows 7 was 14 years ago. (Almost) everything software realted has changed in that time, not just Windows.
- anothernewdude 3y ago
  Well it's hardly my fault that I've not had to use windows in the past 10 years. And no, not every UI has made needless changes since then.

bergon 3y ago

Could it be because you're more comfortable with the CLI than any GUI alternative? E.g. I wouldn't go clicking about for installing packages when it's just one line away. I know many power users of Windows that bring up their terminal frequently as well.

modo_mario 3y ago

>I've used linux desktops for 20 years also and command line is definitely a must on a daily basis. What were you using if I may ask? I use manjaro with plasma and.... idk I really don't have to use the commandline much if at all when i'm not coding. Last time I was forced to was a few months ago in fact with an old niche wifi dongle that didn't work without some tinkering but this now works out of the box as well.

zelphirkalt 3y ago

> Windows is definitely my preferred gui productivity environment lmao, not because I don't believe you really think what you write, but because how user hostile everything in Windows seems to me, if you only want to change a single setting. It will be hidden behind 3 level deep settings dialogs and a "material design" flat links connecting those setting dialogs, so almost no visual indication, to make things stand out. It is horrible UI design. Basically any modern GNU/Linux DE will offer more feedback and visibility in their settings dialogs and windows. Whenever I have to change any settings on Windows, I get a feeling of dread, because I know I will be searching for that setting. And never is the search any help, because they will name things different than I expect or it simply will not find the settings dialog I need to change that setting. It is almost like they intentionally hide the settings ... Windows feels like a system that protects clueless users from themselves.

yomlica8 3y ago
The main problem with Windows' terrible settings is that they are constantly changing. So when you search for how to change something all the instructions are obsolete.
- hakfoo 3y ago
  There's a frustrating trend across the software industry-- chasing that hypothetical "next billion" users by removing customization, complicating discovery, and nerfing advanced features. I'm sure Windows 11 works perfectly if you teleported in from a dimension without computers and never had to unlearn any prior experiences. You'll use the defaults, which of course expose you to the most possible Microsoft revenue streams, and not notice the friction points. It's probably a net positive for that user if they make customization limited and frustrating-- don't give him any paint and he can't paint himself into a corner, resulting in an expensive support session. The most cynical take on this is that the advanced users, who are suffering from the constant abuse from the software undermining attempts at personalization and breaking workflows, are not a priority. They've already paid, and are unlikely to suddenly turn into a new revenue centre.