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Looks like nothing much has changed on Microsoft's end. I posted this 2 years ago on HN[1] about how Microsoft goes out of its way to manipulate users when the

Looks like nothing much has changed on Microsoft's end. I posted this 2 years ago on HN[1] about how Microsoft goes out of its way to manipulate users when they search for "Firefox" on Bing using Edge: > Tangentially related, but I recently spun up a Windows VM and used Edge to search Bing for "Firefox" and this is result I got[2]. > It's a giant banner that says, "You're already browsing in Microsoft Edge. Keep using to get world class performance with more privacy, more productivity, and more value." > That banner is followed by another giant banner image telling me to get "Get Robux using Microsoft Edge. Join Microsoft Rewards and use Microsoft Edge. Get a 100 Robux eGift Card on us when you search with Microsoft Bing on Microsoft Edge for 5 days after you join." > I had to scroll to even see the relevant search results for my search term. I'm assuming most non-power users won't scroll because they were just assured that they were "already browsing in Microsoft Edge", which is apparently more private, productive and valuable than what they intended to search for. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28517187 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28517187 [2] https://i.imgur.com/blHGMgX.png https://i.imgur.com/blHGMgX.png

monero-xmr 3y ago
I installed Windows on a media PC (all other laptops are macOS or Linux) and it was like the entire OS is a web browser without ad block installed. Just endless nags, pop ups, notifications, ads in my start menu, ads in the login screen, holy shit. Who actually likes this? It’s insane!
- Nition 3y ago
  > Who actually likes this? Microsoft.
  - Ygg2 3y ago
    I don't think they like it. But their customers - advertisers - sure do.
    - PaulHoule 3y ago
      You can turn all of that crap off with some effort. Contrast that to the Linux desktop where you can't turn off the "it just doesn't work" (unless you mean just disable the GUI completely and only use the CLI), and the enthusiast who says they have it working just the way they want probably has "just not working" more thoroughly than the defaults. The thing is that those ads are: (1) almost always for other Microsoft products, (2) frequently are for MSN articles aimed at Trump Voters, (3) probably destroy Microsoft products more than they promote them. As an example of (3), consider how Microsoft launched a product called SkyDrive without doing a Trademark check, had to rename it OneDrive (just like they had to call the third XBOX the XBOX ONE, contrast that to Sony where even Mom can tell a PS5 is better than a PS4) then made Office save to OneDrive by default and leave you not being able to save at all if it couldn't connect to OneDrive. That's like killing your product with 900 cyanide laced bullets, if they ever want me to use OneDrive again there is no amount of heavy handed marketing tactics that will work, even if I have to click 500 times and edit 30 registry entries to disable OneDrive I'll do that.
      - 15457345234 3y ago
        > Contrast that to the Linux desktop where you can't turn off the "it just doesn't work" The modern Linux desktop is pretty damn usable, especially if you go with something like PopOS. It's got to be covering 99% of non-workstation-type of use cases out of the box.
        Ygg2 3y ago
        Eh. It depends. If you have something exotic as analog mouse it just doesn't work on Linux. And Linux suffers from OS version of Lisp curse - i.e. whenever two nerds disagree you get a new distro with slightly incompatible behavior. Not to mention Linux breaks compatibility left and right, while Windows lives with its mistakes forever.
        PaulHoule 3y ago
        I was shocked when I was able to install Office 97 at work on a Windows 11 machine and… it “just worked”, paperclip and all the lame ways it tries to take over your desktop…
- sshine 3y ago
  That’s what get when you don’t pay for... oh, wait.
- midoridensha 3y ago
  >Who actually likes this? It’s insane! It's not insane at all, it's good for business. Who likes it? Microsoft shareholders of course. All these annoyances help to increase Microsoft's profits, so they're good by definition. If you don't like the modern Windows experience, it's simple: don't use Windows.
pxmpxm 3y ago
They really need to fire whoever keeps ramming non-sequitur rewards stuff into the windows product. I have still don't understand what the rewards are for, despite having spent inordinate amount of time removing them from my windows machines, but it's bizarre that some product manager gets to piss a convoluted frequent flier miles scheme all over microsoft's premier product. That's akin to Ferrari covering their very exclusive cars with promo stickers hawking those ferrari licensed asus laptops.
- chongli 3y ago
  They really need to fire whoever keeps ramming non-sequitur rewards stuff into the windows product. How do we know this wouldn’t lead to firing the CEO? Frankly, I’m inclined to believe that enshittification [1] is the primary strategy of the company right now. They’ve had decades to build Windows market share and now they realize that growth in software license sales has all but dried up. On the other hand, they’ve seen how hard the wind is blowing in the services and adtech direction. So they’re determined to monetize their Windows install case right up to the hilt. They know they won’t be able to sell these folks expensive software licenses anymore, so they’re selling their users to advertisers instead. [1] https://www.wired.com/story/tiktok-platforms-cory-doctorow/ https://www.wired.com/story/tiktok-platforms-cory-doctorow/
- staplers 3y ago
  Most "rewards" programs (including for grocery stores) are to allow payment method-based tracking. Right now it's illegal to track users/customers based on payment method. This is more than just an upsell.
- p-e-w 3y ago
  > That's akin to Ferrari covering their very exclusive cars with promo stickers hawking those ferrari licensed asus laptops. No it's not, because Windows is not a "premium" or "exclusive" product, at all. It's the textbook example of a mass market product. There are (far) more Windows installations than there are cars in the world. The average Windows user is almost indistinguishable from the average human. And the monetization strategies reflect that.
SoftTalker 3y ago
As with any person or business, you have to judge them not on what they say but on what they do. You can assume that about 50% of whatever anyone says is either a straight-up lie, misleading, or bullshit.
jmkni 3y ago
Ironically I think non-power users will begin every browsing session by typing "www.google.com" into the address bar, avoiding this issue entirely.
deleted 3y ago
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- deleted 3y ago
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monero-xmr 3y ago

I installed Windows on a media PC (all other laptops are macOS or Linux) and it was like the entire OS is a web browser without ad block installed. Just endless nags, pop ups, notifications, ads in my start menu, ads in the login screen, holy shit. Who actually likes this? It’s insane!

Nition 3y ago
> Who actually likes this? Microsoft.
- Ygg2 3y ago
  I don't think they like it. But their customers - advertisers - sure do.
  - PaulHoule 3y ago
    You can turn all of that crap off with some effort. Contrast that to the Linux desktop where you can't turn off the "it just doesn't work" (unless you mean just disable the GUI completely and only use the CLI), and the enthusiast who says they have it working just the way they want probably has "just not working" more thoroughly than the defaults. The thing is that those ads are: (1) almost always for other Microsoft products, (2) frequently are for MSN articles aimed at Trump Voters, (3) probably destroy Microsoft products more than they promote them. As an example of (3), consider how Microsoft launched a product called SkyDrive without doing a Trademark check, had to rename it OneDrive (just like they had to call the third XBOX the XBOX ONE, contrast that to Sony where even Mom can tell a PS5 is better than a PS4) then made Office save to OneDrive by default and leave you not being able to save at all if it couldn't connect to OneDrive. That's like killing your product with 900 cyanide laced bullets, if they ever want me to use OneDrive again there is no amount of heavy handed marketing tactics that will work, even if I have to click 500 times and edit 30 registry entries to disable OneDrive I'll do that.
    - 15457345234 3y ago
      > Contrast that to the Linux desktop where you can't turn off the "it just doesn't work" The modern Linux desktop is pretty damn usable, especially if you go with something like PopOS. It's got to be covering 99% of non-workstation-type of use cases out of the box.
      - Ygg2 3y ago
        Eh. It depends. If you have something exotic as analog mouse it just doesn't work on Linux. And Linux suffers from OS version of Lisp curse - i.e. whenever two nerds disagree you get a new distro with slightly incompatible behavior. Not to mention Linux breaks compatibility left and right, while Windows lives with its mistakes forever.
        PaulHoule 3y ago
        I was shocked when I was able to install Office 97 at work on a Windows 11 machine and… it “just worked”, paperclip and all the lame ways it tries to take over your desktop…
sshine 3y ago
That’s what get when you don’t pay for... oh, wait.
midoridensha 3y ago
>Who actually likes this? It’s insane! It's not insane at all, it's good for business. Who likes it? Microsoft shareholders of course. All these annoyances help to increase Microsoft's profits, so they're good by definition. If you don't like the modern Windows experience, it's simple: don't use Windows.

pxmpxm 3y ago

They really need to fire whoever keeps ramming non-sequitur rewards stuff into the windows product. I have still don't understand what the rewards are for, despite having spent inordinate amount of time removing them from my windows machines, but it's bizarre that some product manager gets to piss a convoluted frequent flier miles scheme all over microsoft's premier product. That's akin to Ferrari covering their very exclusive cars with promo stickers hawking those ferrari licensed asus laptops.

chongli 3y ago
They really need to fire whoever keeps ramming non-sequitur rewards stuff into the windows product. How do we know this wouldn’t lead to firing the CEO? Frankly, I’m inclined to believe that enshittification [1] is the primary strategy of the company right now. They’ve had decades to build Windows market share and now they realize that growth in software license sales has all but dried up. On the other hand, they’ve seen how hard the wind is blowing in the services and adtech direction. So they’re determined to monetize their Windows install case right up to the hilt. They know they won’t be able to sell these folks expensive software licenses anymore, so they’re selling their users to advertisers instead. [1] https://www.wired.com/story/tiktok-platforms-cory-doctorow/ https://www.wired.com/story/tiktok-platforms-cory-doctorow/
staplers 3y ago
Most "rewards" programs (including for grocery stores) are to allow payment method-based tracking. Right now it's illegal to track users/customers based on payment method. This is more than just an upsell.
p-e-w 3y ago
> That's akin to Ferrari covering their very exclusive cars with promo stickers hawking those ferrari licensed asus laptops. No it's not, because Windows is not a "premium" or "exclusive" product, at all. It's the textbook example of a mass market product. There are (far) more Windows installations than there are cars in the world. The average Windows user is almost indistinguishable from the average human. And the monetization strategies reflect that.

SoftTalker 3y ago

As with any person or business, you have to judge them not on what they say but on what they do. You can assume that about 50% of whatever anyone says is either a straight-up lie, misleading, or bullshit.

jmkni 3y ago

Ironically I think non-power users will begin every browsing session by typing "www.google.com" into the address bar, avoiding this issue entirely.

deleted 3y ago

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deleted 3y ago
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