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(Note: All of this applies to Australia, if it's much different for your country, please share!) The one that pains me is ovens. They are hugely power hungry a

(Note: All of this applies to Australia, if it's much different for your country, please share!) The one that pains me is ovens. They are hugely power hungry and here many models have a very tiny amount of insulation (unless you get a "pyrolitic" model that heats up to 500C to burn the oil off, they have better insulation by requirement of that). We have no energy rating for ovens, so no real incentive to improve. The vast majority are also installed by builders when the house is built, so consumers never even make a choice in the first place. You can also imagine that also pushes most builders to the bottom end of the market. I'm also still always surprised how expensive ovens can be for how simple they are. Most of them now also have a fan to run air around the the outside of the unit so it doesn't overheat the cupboard around it (but not all) which is perhaps also a hint at the poor insulation. The cheap builder model I most recently pulled apart had such poor insulation and gaps all around it. Choice's most recent review has running cost per year ranging from $310 to $651 (this is unfortunately behind a paywall): https://www.choice.com.au/home-and-living/kitchen/ovens/review-and-compare/wall-ovens https://www.choice.com.au/home-and-living/kitchen/ovens/revi... "The running costs are calculated based on running the oven at 170°C for one hour, three times per week for 10 years at 30c per kWh. Where available, the fan-forced function is used, otherwise, the fan-assist is used. For models without either function, the top and bottom elements (convection or traditional bake) are used." That's also probably generous since you often run a higher temp and I suspect 200-220C might make a big difference in that cost. It's a good reason to make use of appliances like air fryers (which despite the name are mostly just ovens), they heat a much smaller space and use a lot less power as a result. Unfortunately the ever shrinking house makes storing and using such things increasingly difficult. Microwaves are also only 50% effeceient (a surprise I recently learnt). I know why we don't have it, and energy ratings are partly a proxy for it, but I always wished the average consumer had easy ways to be more informed about trade-offs exactly like this article talks about. You can trade energy effeciency for a slower cycle - that's partly why most washers these days have many different cycle options - you're trading one thing for another - but most of the time they just tell you the name of the situation they are supposedly for without even a hint at maybe how much more or less energy or water or delicacy you are trading off. The same reason product reviews are never clear cut because everyone has different priorities :)

eru 3y ago
> We have no energy rating for ovens, so no real incentive to improve. If energy prices reflect externalities, you wouldn't need any special regulations or official ratings to give people incentives to get improved appliances. Energy costs are already giving people incentives to do so, but perhaps they aren't high enough?
- Qwertious 3y ago
  Energy ratings inform the customer when they're buying; without them, customers often aren't even aware of their energy use before they buy and install the oven, let alone the comparative efficiency of each oven.
  - eru 3y ago
    And if energy was more expensive, people would demand energy ratings, or otherwise not buy from that brand.
- lathiat 3y ago
  That may be true if they at least knew how much energy the oven would use, and, if they actually made the purchasing decision. There is no way to know how much the oven is using. Even noce purchased, most people have no idea how much energy in their home is used by what (they just get a single bill and for an entire 2 months period). Lastly as noted, at least here, the majority are installed by builders and included in a package price - the consumer doesn't choose and most builders don't offer an option. Many more would also be chosen by landlords for those who rent, rather than home owners. Or may have been chosen by the home owner that built the house you then purchased. Thus I would say the number of consumers that directly choose and purchase the oven they use would be a low percentage, and the cost to replace it is high enough to make that unlikely and not have a great payback period.
  - eru 3y ago
    If energy was more expensive, people would care and take this into account when making choices. Eg in Germany people routinely check out how good the insulation on eg the windows is when they choose a place to buy or rent. That's because energy is expensive in Germany, and it gets cold enough in winter that you need to heat. If energy is cheap enough, people can be rationally (!) ignorant about these issues.

eru 3y ago

> We have no energy rating for ovens, so no real incentive to improve. If energy prices reflect externalities, you wouldn't need any special regulations or official ratings to give people incentives to get improved appliances. Energy costs are already giving people incentives to do so, but perhaps they aren't high enough?

Qwertious 3y ago
Energy ratings inform the customer when they're buying; without them, customers often aren't even aware of their energy use before they buy and install the oven, let alone the comparative efficiency of each oven.
- eru 3y ago
  And if energy was more expensive, people would demand energy ratings, or otherwise not buy from that brand.
lathiat 3y ago
That may be true if they at least knew how much energy the oven would use, and, if they actually made the purchasing decision. There is no way to know how much the oven is using. Even noce purchased, most people have no idea how much energy in their home is used by what (they just get a single bill and for an entire 2 months period). Lastly as noted, at least here, the majority are installed by builders and included in a package price - the consumer doesn't choose and most builders don't offer an option. Many more would also be chosen by landlords for those who rent, rather than home owners. Or may have been chosen by the home owner that built the house you then purchased. Thus I would say the number of consumers that directly choose and purchase the oven they use would be a low percentage, and the cost to replace it is high enough to make that unlikely and not have a great payback period.
- eru 3y ago
  If energy was more expensive, people would care and take this into account when making choices. Eg in Germany people routinely check out how good the insulation on eg the windows is when they choose a place to buy or rent. That's because energy is expensive in Germany, and it gets cold enough in winter that you need to heat. If energy is cheap enough, people can be rationally (!) ignorant about these issues.