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> I would often let potential customers think we already had a feature they wanted and, if they signed, would come back to the team and say “we’ve got to build

> I would often let potential customers think we already had a feature they wanted and, if they signed, would come back to the team and say “we’ve got to build this before they launch!” And the takeaway is to make sure your cofounders are OK with this first. Maybe just don't commit fraud? If something is truly a dealbreaker then just be honest and promise to build it out with contract terms giving them an out if you fail? Do these people use deceptively attractive pictures in their dating profiles? Then expect they'll just hit the gym and/or plastic surgeon if they can convince someone to connect with them?

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sethbannon 3y ago
Post author here. If a customer asked "and I'll be able to upload my own data?" and the response was "absolutely" even though that functionality didn't exist yet because we knew we could build it before they launched, that's nothing approaching fraud. I don't believe we ever once didn't have a feature like this that a customer wanted before they actually launched. The disagreement is whether it's ok to just say "absolutely" or whether it's important to say the full "just to be clear, the product can't do that today but we can build it before you launch." 10 years later I'd take the latter approach.
- dagw 3y ago
  I've been on the other side of this. We talked to this startup about their product and they claimed it had exactly the features we needed. We said fantastic and were ready and willing to hand over $10-20k to them for this, and they just kept stalling and making up excuses and demoing things that didn't actually do what we actually needed. Eventually they had to admit that they couldn't deliver the feature we needed. We were rather pissed off and cut all future dealings with them. They could have ended up with at least $50k from us over 2-3 years if they'd been honest and showed willingness to work with us, and instead they got zero.
  - deleted 3y ago
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  - sethbannon 3y ago
    Great example of how sacrificing integrity to potentially cut corners is long term self-defeating.
- 010101010101 3y ago
  Who is the “we” here? Because it sounds a lot like _you’re_ assuming it can be be built for the people who are going to be tasked with doing so.
  - walr000s 3y ago
    My experience being a leader in similar situations is that when I say "we will have that in the next release", I mean "the engineers who are tasked with that will have completed it OR I will personally do it."
- paulryanrogers 3y ago
  'Absolutely' is strongly affirmative wording. I'd say it's fraudulent even from an engineer deeply familiar with the level of effort. Language matters and executives should know better. I know from personal experience it's hard to avoid speaking too quickly, yet it's also important to self correct in the moment. Otherwise why have such people on a call if they cannot communicate accurately and won't even admit when they misspeak?
- f1shy 3y ago
  It absolutely is. What is wrong with you? It is really normal to lie to people on their face? I mean, you can perfectly say “The feature is not ready, but will be at X time” Ready, no need to be dishonest.
clnq 3y ago
> And the takeaway is to make sure your cofounders are OK with this first. Let's not forget the employees who will actually plan and build the features. I've seen not one of these deliverables fail because executives forgot to tell their team in time. Or, in fact, tell at all. It's easy to get overwhelmed with all the white lies and forget some, I expect. It will damage relationships and employee morale. The white lies are not free.
- sethbannon 3y ago
  True. And you're likely to lose your team's trust to. If employees see a leader telling white lies to potential customers (or to anyone) they're likely to ask "I wonder what white lies they're telling me?"
  - paulryanrogers 3y ago
    A coworker said he worked for a person who did this routinely, inventing whole offerings in the moment. Then demand the team crunch to deliver. Supposedly this was their idea of proving the market.
  - clnq 3y ago
    It's also "what else have we promised that I'll have to deliver but don't know about?" and "what else will the executive promise before this ships?" Those are the real morale killers - knowing that you might need to start stressing and crunching at any moment, and that the roadmaps you have aren't real. Nor are your commitments to anyone working in the company if you get pulled off your planned work to service a white lie. They just complicate everything. An executive lying to customers is a huge liability. I won't take an ethical stance on it, but in a business sense, the lies incur a debt that must be paid.
jimmaswell 3y ago
On the other hand, Bill Gates famously did this to IBM regarding DOS. When it works, it works. Sometimes pressure makes a diamond, as many of us with ADHD procrastinstion know
- kelnos 3y ago
  I don't think this is an endorsement of this practice. Consider that Gates then spent the next couple decades engaging in anti-competitive behavior that IMO did a lot of harm to the personal computing industry. If anything, this tale about Gates just tells us that you can "win" in unethical ways by continuing to do unethical things throughout your career.
  - jimmaswell 3y ago
    As far as business ethics, I feel like a little overpromising with legitimate confidence you'll actually deliver isn't the worst. It's high-risk high-reward.
coldtea 3y ago
>I would often let potential customers think we already had a feature they wanted and, if they signed, would come back to the team and say “we’ve got to build this before they launch!” Or as most B2B companies call this, "a typical weekday".
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zelphirkalt 3y ago
Also make sure, that the people who need to develop it are on board. It is a bad feeling, when there is time pressure, just because management thought they could promise something that does not yet even exist.

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sethbannon 3y ago

Post author here. If a customer asked "and I'll be able to upload my own data?" and the response was "absolutely" even though that functionality didn't exist yet because we knew we could build it before they launched, that's nothing approaching fraud. I don't believe we ever once didn't have a feature like this that a customer wanted before they actually launched. The disagreement is whether it's ok to just say "absolutely" or whether it's important to say the full "just to be clear, the product can't do that today but we can build it before you launch." 10 years later I'd take the latter approach.

dagw 3y ago
I've been on the other side of this. We talked to this startup about their product and they claimed it had exactly the features we needed. We said fantastic and were ready and willing to hand over $10-20k to them for this, and they just kept stalling and making up excuses and demoing things that didn't actually do what we actually needed. Eventually they had to admit that they couldn't deliver the feature we needed. We were rather pissed off and cut all future dealings with them. They could have ended up with at least $50k from us over 2-3 years if they'd been honest and showed willingness to work with us, and instead they got zero.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- sethbannon 3y ago
  Great example of how sacrificing integrity to potentially cut corners is long term self-defeating.
010101010101 3y ago
Who is the “we” here? Because it sounds a lot like _you’re_ assuming it can be be built for the people who are going to be tasked with doing so.
- walr000s 3y ago
  My experience being a leader in similar situations is that when I say "we will have that in the next release", I mean "the engineers who are tasked with that will have completed it OR I will personally do it."
paulryanrogers 3y ago
'Absolutely' is strongly affirmative wording. I'd say it's fraudulent even from an engineer deeply familiar with the level of effort. Language matters and executives should know better. I know from personal experience it's hard to avoid speaking too quickly, yet it's also important to self correct in the moment. Otherwise why have such people on a call if they cannot communicate accurately and won't even admit when they misspeak?
f1shy 3y ago
It absolutely is. What is wrong with you? It is really normal to lie to people on their face? I mean, you can perfectly say “The feature is not ready, but will be at X time” Ready, no need to be dishonest.

clnq 3y ago

> And the takeaway is to make sure your cofounders are OK with this first. Let's not forget the employees who will actually plan and build the features. I've seen not one of these deliverables fail because executives forgot to tell their team in time. Or, in fact, tell at all. It's easy to get overwhelmed with all the white lies and forget some, I expect. It will damage relationships and employee morale. The white lies are not free.

sethbannon 3y ago
True. And you're likely to lose your team's trust to. If employees see a leader telling white lies to potential customers (or to anyone) they're likely to ask "I wonder what white lies they're telling me?"
- paulryanrogers 3y ago
  A coworker said he worked for a person who did this routinely, inventing whole offerings in the moment. Then demand the team crunch to deliver. Supposedly this was their idea of proving the market.
- clnq 3y ago
  It's also "what else have we promised that I'll have to deliver but don't know about?" and "what else will the executive promise before this ships?" Those are the real morale killers - knowing that you might need to start stressing and crunching at any moment, and that the roadmaps you have aren't real. Nor are your commitments to anyone working in the company if you get pulled off your planned work to service a white lie. They just complicate everything. An executive lying to customers is a huge liability. I won't take an ethical stance on it, but in a business sense, the lies incur a debt that must be paid.

jimmaswell 3y ago

On the other hand, Bill Gates famously did this to IBM regarding DOS. When it works, it works. Sometimes pressure makes a diamond, as many of us with ADHD procrastinstion know

kelnos 3y ago
I don't think this is an endorsement of this practice. Consider that Gates then spent the next couple decades engaging in anti-competitive behavior that IMO did a lot of harm to the personal computing industry. If anything, this tale about Gates just tells us that you can "win" in unethical ways by continuing to do unethical things throughout your career.
- jimmaswell 3y ago
  As far as business ethics, I feel like a little overpromising with legitimate confidence you'll actually deliver isn't the worst. It's high-risk high-reward.

coldtea 3y ago

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zelphirkalt 3y ago

Also make sure, that the people who need to develop it are on board. It is a bad feeling, when there is time pressure, just because management thought they could promise something that does not yet even exist.