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There's also some questionable stuff on here for ICs: > Keep your manager up-to-date on people you have difficulty working with If one of my directs came to a

There's also some questionable stuff on here for ICs: > Keep your manager up-to-date on people you have difficulty working with If one of my directs came to a one on one and shared their updated enemy-list with me, I'd be pretty concerned.

cratermoon 3y ago
If one of my directs didn't tell me about difficult-to-work-with people, I'd be concerned. I want to know if there are people everyone finds difficult work with, and the best way to know is to hear from all ICs.
alex_lav 3y ago
The fact that you equate “difficulty working with” as an enemy list suggests to me you’re probably not equipped to be managing people. Respectfully.
- jameshart 3y ago
  There's a difference between having some awareness of interpersonal challenges my team have, versus one of them having, among the list of 61 principles by which they govern themselves, 'keeping me up to date on who they are having difficulty working with'. I mean, I note that there isn't a corresponding advice to 'keep your manager up to date on people you enjoy working with'. Overall, it just sounds like they plan on making problems and then bringing them to me to resolve. Which, sure, would require 'managing'.
  - alex_lav 3y ago
    > Overall, it just sounds like they plan on making problems and then bringing them to me to resolve. Which, sure, would require 'managing'. Yeah…again, I’m trying to communicate respectfully, but I really think these perspectives aren’t fit for being responsible for others’ employment.
    - jameshart 3y ago
      You're clearly a very serious person. It might help you to be aware that some other people take things, in general, a little lightly. Out of context guidance consisting of little faux-wise aphorisms like that of the OP is just kind of inherently amusing, especially when offered earnestly, precisely because it is open to misinterpretation - and my suggestion that it could be interpreted as advice to keep your manager apprised of who's currently on your enemies list was meant to illustrate that risk. As putative advice to senior engineers for how to conduct themselves, it struck me as something which some toxic engineers might take as endorsing their superior attitude. That makes it bad advice, and that's why I'm mocking it. But how I react to the idea of this sort of thing being offered as career advice, respectfully, tells you absolutely nothing about how I conduct myself in my professional role.
      - alex_lav 3y ago
        > and my suggestion that it could be interpreted as advice to keep your manager apprised of who's currently on your enemies list was meant to illustrate that risk. Yeah....again....not an enemies list. > As putative advice to senior engineers for how to conduct themselves, it struck me as something which some toxic engineers might take as endorsing their superior attitude. That makes it bad advice, and that's why I'm mocking it. Yeah...again...this perception is a toxic _manager_ trait. > But how I react to the idea of this sort of thing being offered as career advice, respectfully, tells you absolutely nothing about how I conduct myself in my professional role. We can disagree, that's fine. Thankfully you don't work in my organization, so your opinion is of 0 value to me. I had (obviously incorrectly) hoped some sane feedback might make you reevaluate your behavior, but alas stubbornness prevails. Hopefully your reports can manage working with you effectively.
        fragmede 3y ago
        Hopefully jameshart's reports have mentors and are able to manage up more successfully than your feedback.
fragmede 3y ago
I... what do you you see as your job as a manager? Your entire job as a manager is to manage your direct reports. Knowing who they're working with, and who they're having difficulty working with (and then to smooth it over so they can continue to work together, or move people around so they don't have to) is core to the job of managing y'know, people.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

cratermoon 3y ago

If one of my directs didn't tell me about difficult-to-work-with people, I'd be concerned. I want to know if there are people everyone finds difficult work with, and the best way to know is to hear from all ICs.

alex_lav 3y ago

The fact that you equate “difficulty working with” as an enemy list suggests to me you’re probably not equipped to be managing people. Respectfully.

jameshart 3y ago
There's a difference between having some awareness of interpersonal challenges my team have, versus one of them having, among the list of 61 principles by which they govern themselves, 'keeping me up to date on who they are having difficulty working with'. I mean, I note that there isn't a corresponding advice to 'keep your manager up to date on people you enjoy working with'. Overall, it just sounds like they plan on making problems and then bringing them to me to resolve. Which, sure, would require 'managing'.
- alex_lav 3y ago
  > Overall, it just sounds like they plan on making problems and then bringing them to me to resolve. Which, sure, would require 'managing'. Yeah…again, I’m trying to communicate respectfully, but I really think these perspectives aren’t fit for being responsible for others’ employment.
  - jameshart 3y ago
    You're clearly a very serious person. It might help you to be aware that some other people take things, in general, a little lightly. Out of context guidance consisting of little faux-wise aphorisms like that of the OP is just kind of inherently amusing, especially when offered earnestly, precisely because it is open to misinterpretation - and my suggestion that it could be interpreted as advice to keep your manager apprised of who's currently on your enemies list was meant to illustrate that risk. As putative advice to senior engineers for how to conduct themselves, it struck me as something which some toxic engineers might take as endorsing their superior attitude. That makes it bad advice, and that's why I'm mocking it. But how I react to the idea of this sort of thing being offered as career advice, respectfully, tells you absolutely nothing about how I conduct myself in my professional role.
    - alex_lav 3y ago
      > and my suggestion that it could be interpreted as advice to keep your manager apprised of who's currently on your enemies list was meant to illustrate that risk. Yeah....again....not an enemies list. > As putative advice to senior engineers for how to conduct themselves, it struck me as something which some toxic engineers might take as endorsing their superior attitude. That makes it bad advice, and that's why I'm mocking it. Yeah...again...this perception is a toxic _manager_ trait. > But how I react to the idea of this sort of thing being offered as career advice, respectfully, tells you absolutely nothing about how I conduct myself in my professional role. We can disagree, that's fine. Thankfully you don't work in my organization, so your opinion is of 0 value to me. I had (obviously incorrectly) hoped some sane feedback might make you reevaluate your behavior, but alas stubbornness prevails. Hopefully your reports can manage working with you effectively.
      - fragmede 3y ago
        Hopefully jameshart's reports have mentors and are able to manage up more successfully than your feedback.

fragmede 3y ago

I... what do you you see as your job as a manager? Your entire job as a manager is to manage your direct reports. Knowing who they're working with, and who they're having difficulty working with (and then to smooth it over so they can continue to work together, or move people around so they don't have to) is core to the job of managing y'know, people.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]