4 ms·

There is a misconception that consistency == usability. It's an important part of usability but there is a lot more to it. Tunnel vision on consistency (or anyt

There is a misconception that consistency == usability. It's an important part of usability but there is a lot more to it. Tunnel vision on consistency (or anything really) doesn't lead to good outcomes. The big picture is what matters: can someone do what they need to do? Articles like these also have lots of opinions, no research and stats, nor have decent explanations of how much impact these "problems" actually have. Granted I have not seen much research on desktop apps, but in other fields things have measurable improved a lot. Even going by opinion, my memory from that time was that everything was pretty bad. How often do you lose work because of crashes or not enough undo steps? And could you do the same things you can do now? Also don't forget about all the horrible Java software that didn't use the OS UI. People romanticize (software of) the past. The stuff I use today is magic compared to the old crap. Obviously not everything is perfect and I do recognize/understand some of the criticism in the article, but focussing on the little things really misses the big picture that is usability: completing the task that you need to complete, and that is easier than ever. > You're old and angry! You bet! Now get off my lawn, punk. Fair enough, I'll see myself out.

yawaramin 3y ago
> How often do you lose work because of crashes or not enough undo steps? Crashes and too few undo steps are not a UI/UX problem, they are a software quality/hardware limitations (enough memory or storage to hold all those steps) problem. Software reliability has definitely gotten better in many aspects, as long-lived software applications and operating systems have been through the crucible of time and learned from their reliability mistakes. But UI/UX is in many aspects worse than ever. > Also don't forget about all the horrible Java software that didn't use the OS UI. The article actually says the same thing: 'A few rogue applications didn't play by the rules,...' > completing the task that you need to complete, and that is easier than ever. Do me a favour–try getting an older person who has not used Zoom before, to host a meeting and accept guest join requests. You will really understand the sorry state we are in once you see them struggle to do this.
- codeptualize 3y ago
  >are not a UI/UX problem Never said UI, but they are absolute usability & user experience problems. Arguably the most important ones! This is exactly what I mean by missing the big picture. What do you think has more impact on completing a task and the experience of completing that task? A working maybe slightly inconsistent toolbar, or the thing crashing and loosing your work? > The article actually says the same thing: 'A few rogue applications didn't play by the rules,...' Fair enough, although I would say it was a lot more than a rogue few.. > Do me a favour–try getting an older person who has not used Zoom before Great example of something that you couldn't do and now can, times are truly great right now. It's great that you mention old people, I have helped some learning to deal with computers, back then, and also more recently. It's so much easier now. Old computers with the software we are talking about was/is really hard to learn for them, now with ipads and smartphones they can do so many things. Can't say I have tried zoom specifically, but Hangouts, face time, whatsapp, email, even installing games and apps, no problem at all! They can achieve so many more things because we have come so far and things are more usable than ever.
  - yawaramin 3y ago
    > This is exactly what I mean by missing the big picture. The point you are making is a different one than the one that the OP is making. Just because you are making a specific (different) point, doesn't make the OP's point invalid. > Great example of something that you couldn't do and now can, times are truly great right now. Again a different point. Of course we now have a proliferation of different and powerful software. The point I am making is about the UI/UX of the software, not about the fact that they make something possible that wasn't before.
    - codeptualize 3y ago
      The article states that usability is declining, the arguments to back that up are: things are somewhat inconsistent and I don't like [some UI patterns]. My point is that the claim is wrong, and the arguments don't support it and have little to do with usability. This follows from a misconception that usability, UI, and user experience are the same thing, which is really showing a lack of understanding of what they actually are. I write my comments in the hope that people will actually look into these topics more deeply as they are quite interesting and often require setting aside the preferences, gut instinct, and pet peeves this article is filled with.
mnd999 3y ago
> Articles like these also have lots of opinions, no research and stats, Oh you’re in the data driven club. I bet you even A/B test. Good luck with that.
- codeptualize 3y ago
  No, I don't use A/B tests for usability as they aren't very helpful to find usability problems. A/B testing is more for conversion optimization, it's to measure how persuasive something is. User testing is my preferred method (in it's simplest form just observing people doing a task), if that's not an option I like heuristic evaluations. I suggest you actually look into what usability is about, you might enjoy it. Good luck with your assumptions.
pseudalopex 3y ago
These things were studied in decades past. Did you demand research and stats when Microsoft made it impossible to tell which window is focused? What benefits were claimed?
- codeptualize 3y ago
  My whole point is that usability is not about small details but the ability to complete a task. The big picture. I don't use windows, I don't like it, but if [it being impossible to tell which window is focussed] doesn't impede people accomplishing the things they need to do, it's probably a cosmetic, at best a minor usability problem.
  - pseudalopex 3y ago
    Usability is the ease of completing tasks. Not ability. You seem very invested in dismissing constructive criticism. And you demanded research but provided none.
wredue 3y ago
>the stuff I use today is magic compared to the old crap I… what? Software is losing features while simultaneously becoming less usable. The only thing software does better today than yesterday is spying on you.

yawaramin 3y ago

> How often do you lose work because of crashes or not enough undo steps? Crashes and too few undo steps are not a UI/UX problem, they are a software quality/hardware limitations (enough memory or storage to hold all those steps) problem. Software reliability has definitely gotten better in many aspects, as long-lived software applications and operating systems have been through the crucible of time and learned from their reliability mistakes. But UI/UX is in many aspects worse than ever. > Also don't forget about all the horrible Java software that didn't use the OS UI. The article actually says the same thing: 'A few rogue applications didn't play by the rules,...' > completing the task that you need to complete, and that is easier than ever. Do me a favour–try getting an older person who has not used Zoom before, to host a meeting and accept guest join requests. You will really understand the sorry state we are in once you see them struggle to do this.

codeptualize 3y ago
>are not a UI/UX problem Never said UI, but they are absolute usability & user experience problems. Arguably the most important ones! This is exactly what I mean by missing the big picture. What do you think has more impact on completing a task and the experience of completing that task? A working maybe slightly inconsistent toolbar, or the thing crashing and loosing your work? > The article actually says the same thing: 'A few rogue applications didn't play by the rules,...' Fair enough, although I would say it was a lot more than a rogue few.. > Do me a favour–try getting an older person who has not used Zoom before Great example of something that you couldn't do and now can, times are truly great right now. It's great that you mention old people, I have helped some learning to deal with computers, back then, and also more recently. It's so much easier now. Old computers with the software we are talking about was/is really hard to learn for them, now with ipads and smartphones they can do so many things. Can't say I have tried zoom specifically, but Hangouts, face time, whatsapp, email, even installing games and apps, no problem at all! They can achieve so many more things because we have come so far and things are more usable than ever.
- yawaramin 3y ago
  > This is exactly what I mean by missing the big picture. The point you are making is a different one than the one that the OP is making. Just because you are making a specific (different) point, doesn't make the OP's point invalid. > Great example of something that you couldn't do and now can, times are truly great right now. Again a different point. Of course we now have a proliferation of different and powerful software. The point I am making is about the UI/UX of the software, not about the fact that they make something possible that wasn't before.
  - codeptualize 3y ago
    The article states that usability is declining, the arguments to back that up are: things are somewhat inconsistent and I don't like [some UI patterns]. My point is that the claim is wrong, and the arguments don't support it and have little to do with usability. This follows from a misconception that usability, UI, and user experience are the same thing, which is really showing a lack of understanding of what they actually are. I write my comments in the hope that people will actually look into these topics more deeply as they are quite interesting and often require setting aside the preferences, gut instinct, and pet peeves this article is filled with.

mnd999 3y ago

> Articles like these also have lots of opinions, no research and stats, Oh you’re in the data driven club. I bet you even A/B test. Good luck with that.

codeptualize 3y ago
No, I don't use A/B tests for usability as they aren't very helpful to find usability problems. A/B testing is more for conversion optimization, it's to measure how persuasive something is. User testing is my preferred method (in it's simplest form just observing people doing a task), if that's not an option I like heuristic evaluations. I suggest you actually look into what usability is about, you might enjoy it. Good luck with your assumptions.

pseudalopex 3y ago

These things were studied in decades past. Did you demand research and stats when Microsoft made it impossible to tell which window is focused? What benefits were claimed?

codeptualize 3y ago
My whole point is that usability is not about small details but the ability to complete a task. The big picture. I don't use windows, I don't like it, but if [it being impossible to tell which window is focussed] doesn't impede people accomplishing the things they need to do, it's probably a cosmetic, at best a minor usability problem.
- pseudalopex 3y ago
  Usability is the ease of completing tasks. Not ability. You seem very invested in dismissing constructive criticism. And you demanded research but provided none.

wredue 3y ago

>the stuff I use today is magic compared to the old crap I… what? Software is losing features while simultaneously becoming less usable. The only thing software does better today than yesterday is spying on you.