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Climate change deniers tell each other we are coming out of The Little Ice Age that started in 1200AD. Which is technically correct. What they don’t tell each

Climate change deniers tell each other we are coming out of The Little Ice Age that started in 1200AD. Which is technically correct. What they don’t tell each other is that “Little” is an understatement and we shot way past the prior “Medieval Warm Period” long ago and are only accelerating. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age#/media/File%3A2000%2B_year_global_temperature_including_Medieval_Warm_Period_and_Little_Ice_Age_-_Ed_Hawkins.svg https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age#/media/File%3...

Etrnl_President 3y ago
People believe we are coming out of an ice age? This means they deny climate is changing. The more you know…
- piuantiderp 3y ago
  It's not belief...This is a pretty accepted fact, the debate amongst the educated is about the speed and causes of the change (man-made vs not)
wredue 3y ago
I just checked on them a few days ago. Their current messaging is back to: “Climate change is a hoax for science grants and political power”
- rc_mob 3y ago
  Many issues over humanity it has been the case that someone lied for power. Insane that these idiots picked the one time a problem is actually really real as the time they decided to call out the tactic.
  - SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
    > Insane that these idiots picked the one time a problem is actually really real as the time they decided to call out the tactic. If you take every shot you're probably going to miss a lot.
- johnchristopher 3y ago
  Latest trend is "warming (which is normal) is increasing co2, but the other way around". From the same people who think co2 levels are too low to be significant and that water vapor is more problematic.
IG_Semmelweiss 3y ago
I read what you wrote several times and I still don't understand what your point is. Can you please elaborate?
- mindcandy 3y ago
  eschelon said that we are in an ice age and multiple people asked “how can you call this an ice age?” I either didn’t see the linked reference or it wasn’t there when I read eschelon’s comment. Either way, I’ve seen the Little Ice Age come up enough lately to be extremely irritating. So, I knee-jerked the rebuttal. Now I think eschelon was actually asking if we are overriding the https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaternary_glaciation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaternary_glaciation which would normally take millions of years to happen.
  - Jtsummers 3y ago
    > I either didn't see the linked reference or it wasn't there when I read eschelon's comment. It wasn't there. echelon added the references later, presumably en lieu of responding to everyone. Everything below the -- is new.
  - IG_Semmelweiss 3y ago
    Thank you for the honesty
  - echelon 3y ago
    I'm not a climate change denier. I'm very interested in climate science, I'm just not informed as I'd like to be. I edited my comment to include sources for things I knew off-hand. I left the core comment largely intact, just changing a few words to better flow with the sources. I want more information and reading around the questions I asked. From my understanding, it looks like we're about to enter a period that is actually slightly more sustainable for humans on average (increases in arable land, easier to access hydrocarbons - yikes) [1]. But from there, we may quickly slip into ranges that kill everything. Especially if the Clathrate gun hypothesis [2] or similar runaway mechanisms turn out correct. And obviously even if slightly warmer temperatures are better for people on average, every temperature increment results in enormous and permanent erasure of species diversity. That's an incalculable loss that we cannot recover. --- [1] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/12/16/magazine/russia-climate-migration-crisis.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/12/16/magazine/russ... "And no country may be better positioned to capitalize on climate change than Russia. Russia has the largest land mass by far of any northern nation. It is positioned farther north than all of its South Asian neighbors, which collectively are home to the largest global population fending off displacement from rising seas, drought and an overheating climate. Like Canada, Russia is rich in resources and land, with room to grow. Its crop production is expected to be boosted by warming temperatures over the coming decades even as farm yields in the United States, Europe and India are all forecast to decrease. And whether by accident or cunning strategy or, most likely, some combination of the two, the steps its leaders have steadily taken — planting flags in the Arctic and propping up domestic grain production among them — have increasingly positioned Russia to regain its superpower mantle in a warmer world." (There are lots of other geopolitical takes on climate change that cite similar outcomes for a host of other countries.) [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clathrate_gun_hypothesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clathrate_gun_hypothesis
leereeves 3y ago
That chart covers a very short duration. Here's a more complete chart of Earth's temperature: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geologic_temperature_record#/media/File:All_palaeotemps.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geologic_temperature_record#/m... As you can see, we are indeed coming out of one of the coldest periods ever in Earth's history.
- kurthr 3y ago
  ... and based on that chart are now hotter than any time in the last 100k years, heading into the last few million. A few 10s (of million) years at +25c are going to be the "new normal"? I'm trying to understand the point. The rate of change is quite dramatic, and the last time (Eemian) there was anything like this there were "rapid" 12c oscillations. Humans didn't exist. I suspect most current plant/animal species are "devolved" by such swings.
  - bsaul 3y ago
    Don't know about op's point, but seeing those kinds of graphs makes you really think twice about the hypothesis that stopping any kind of human activity will have any effect on a phenomenon that's been naturally occuring for hundreds of millions of years, on one order of magnitude greater than what we're observing (talking about degrees variation, not taking speed into account).
    - SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
      > talking about degrees variation, not taking speed into account If you discount this of course we aren't effecting anything unprecedented. We were once a ball of magma. But, as has been pointed out here, rate and cause of change is incredibly important. A swing set and an explosion will both launch you into the air.
  - IAmGraydon 3y ago
    >and based on that chart are now hotter than any time in the last 100k years, heading into the last few million. A few 10s (of million) years at +25c are going to be the "new normal"? No, the chart does not say that. The 2050 and 2100 dots are projections from the IPOC RCP8.5 “high emissions” scenario. Also, absolutely nothing on that says we’re going to +25c. That part of the chart (that goes to 25) is in F, and it still doesn’t say we’re going to 25f either. Lots of people wonder why we have so many climate deniers. A lot of the reason is because of guys like this ^ on the opposite end of the spectrum, spewing their fears into a hyperbolic, warped reality. What we need more of is a balanced, realistic, objective view. That will allow us to get to work on a solution.
peoplefromibiza 3y ago
no, scientists do too. https://www.space.com/climate-change-termination-event-end-ice-age https://www.space.com/climate-change-termination-event-end-i...

Etrnl_President 3y ago

People believe we are coming out of an ice age? This means they deny climate is changing. The more you know…

piuantiderp 3y ago
It's not belief...This is a pretty accepted fact, the debate amongst the educated is about the speed and causes of the change (man-made vs not)

wredue 3y ago

I just checked on them a few days ago. Their current messaging is back to: “Climate change is a hoax for science grants and political power”

rc_mob 3y ago
Many issues over humanity it has been the case that someone lied for power. Insane that these idiots picked the one time a problem is actually really real as the time they decided to call out the tactic.
- SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
  > Insane that these idiots picked the one time a problem is actually really real as the time they decided to call out the tactic. If you take every shot you're probably going to miss a lot.
johnchristopher 3y ago
Latest trend is "warming (which is normal) is increasing co2, but the other way around". From the same people who think co2 levels are too low to be significant and that water vapor is more problematic.

IG_Semmelweiss 3y ago

I read what you wrote several times and I still don't understand what your point is. Can you please elaborate?

mindcandy 3y ago
eschelon said that we are in an ice age and multiple people asked “how can you call this an ice age?” I either didn’t see the linked reference or it wasn’t there when I read eschelon’s comment. Either way, I’ve seen the Little Ice Age come up enough lately to be extremely irritating. So, I knee-jerked the rebuttal. Now I think eschelon was actually asking if we are overriding the https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaternary_glaciation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaternary_glaciation which would normally take millions of years to happen.
- Jtsummers 3y ago
  > I either didn't see the linked reference or it wasn't there when I read eschelon's comment. It wasn't there. echelon added the references later, presumably en lieu of responding to everyone. Everything below the -- is new.
- IG_Semmelweiss 3y ago
  Thank you for the honesty
- echelon 3y ago
  I'm not a climate change denier. I'm very interested in climate science, I'm just not informed as I'd like to be. I edited my comment to include sources for things I knew off-hand. I left the core comment largely intact, just changing a few words to better flow with the sources. I want more information and reading around the questions I asked. From my understanding, it looks like we're about to enter a period that is actually slightly more sustainable for humans on average (increases in arable land, easier to access hydrocarbons - yikes) [1]. But from there, we may quickly slip into ranges that kill everything. Especially if the Clathrate gun hypothesis [2] or similar runaway mechanisms turn out correct. And obviously even if slightly warmer temperatures are better for people on average, every temperature increment results in enormous and permanent erasure of species diversity. That's an incalculable loss that we cannot recover. --- [1] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/12/16/magazine/russia-climate-migration-crisis.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/12/16/magazine/russ... "And no country may be better positioned to capitalize on climate change than Russia. Russia has the largest land mass by far of any northern nation. It is positioned farther north than all of its South Asian neighbors, which collectively are home to the largest global population fending off displacement from rising seas, drought and an overheating climate. Like Canada, Russia is rich in resources and land, with room to grow. Its crop production is expected to be boosted by warming temperatures over the coming decades even as farm yields in the United States, Europe and India are all forecast to decrease. And whether by accident or cunning strategy or, most likely, some combination of the two, the steps its leaders have steadily taken — planting flags in the Arctic and propping up domestic grain production among them — have increasingly positioned Russia to regain its superpower mantle in a warmer world." (There are lots of other geopolitical takes on climate change that cite similar outcomes for a host of other countries.) [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clathrate_gun_hypothesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clathrate_gun_hypothesis

leereeves 3y ago

That chart covers a very short duration. Here's a more complete chart of Earth's temperature: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geologic_temperature_record#/media/File:All_palaeotemps.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geologic_temperature_record#/m... As you can see, we are indeed coming out of one of the coldest periods ever in Earth's history.

kurthr 3y ago
... and based on that chart are now hotter than any time in the last 100k years, heading into the last few million. A few 10s (of million) years at +25c are going to be the "new normal"? I'm trying to understand the point. The rate of change is quite dramatic, and the last time (Eemian) there was anything like this there were "rapid" 12c oscillations. Humans didn't exist. I suspect most current plant/animal species are "devolved" by such swings.
- bsaul 3y ago
  Don't know about op's point, but seeing those kinds of graphs makes you really think twice about the hypothesis that stopping any kind of human activity will have any effect on a phenomenon that's been naturally occuring for hundreds of millions of years, on one order of magnitude greater than what we're observing (talking about degrees variation, not taking speed into account).
  - SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
    > talking about degrees variation, not taking speed into account If you discount this of course we aren't effecting anything unprecedented. We were once a ball of magma. But, as has been pointed out here, rate and cause of change is incredibly important. A swing set and an explosion will both launch you into the air.
- IAmGraydon 3y ago
  >and based on that chart are now hotter than any time in the last 100k years, heading into the last few million. A few 10s (of million) years at +25c are going to be the "new normal"? No, the chart does not say that. The 2050 and 2100 dots are projections from the IPOC RCP8.5 “high emissions” scenario. Also, absolutely nothing on that says we’re going to +25c. That part of the chart (that goes to 25) is in F, and it still doesn’t say we’re going to 25f either. Lots of people wonder why we have so many climate deniers. A lot of the reason is because of guys like this ^ on the opposite end of the spectrum, spewing their fears into a hyperbolic, warped reality. What we need more of is a balanced, realistic, objective view. That will allow us to get to work on a solution.

peoplefromibiza 3y ago

no, scientists do too. https://www.space.com/climate-change-termination-event-end-ice-age https://www.space.com/climate-change-termination-event-end-i...