6 ms·
Or how about a proper dowry... that is the point. A savings bond, or even a symbolic gold chain... provided that the price is reasonably represented in gold we
by dalbasal 3y ago
Or how about a proper dowry... that is the point.
A savings bond, or even a symbolic gold chain... provided that the price is reasonably represented in gold weight.
Dowries are/were a symbolic and real proof of financial fortitude, intent. They often a represent real safety net. In some cases, increase the woman (or man's) ability to leave a marriage, a liberty and power balance function.
So much of our modern culture is a corrupt cargo cult. We are completely removed from the meaning behind our symbolisms, both intellectually and culturally.
China's adoption of Christmas and Christmas-like festivities for retail purposes is my favourite example. A copy of a copy with all meaning distilled to "winter shopping."
Anyway... there's no inherent reason for engagement rings, gifts or donations. If we like the traditional/cultural aspects... use them. Otherwise, why so sheep?
- mrkeen 3y ago> China's adoption of Christmas and Christmas-like festivities for retail purposes is my favourite example Indeed. Bring back Saturnalia!
- hutzlibu 3y agoOr Yule in the more northern parts.
- dalbasal 3y agoOr any other winter festival that was practiced before christmas, and christianity superseded it.
- yencabulator 3y agoPlot twist: Northern Europe happily kept doing several of its pre-Christian activities. Christianity was superficially conformed to, to avoid repression, but it didn't really supersede as much as add to and slightly change things. For example, while you don't see people actually worshiping the old gods[1], the local version of Easter is filled with the old symbols of fertility, witches, and evil spirits. [1]: If they ever were ever really "worshiped" in the modern sense, in an animistic belief system.
- ethanbond 3y agoNo longer purchasing women from fathers is a strict improvement over the allegedly pristine culture of the past. Edit: Got the direction of money transfer wrong but the fundamental “two men agreeing to transact a woman” remains intact and, yes, despicable.
- isykt 3y agoAgreed, and it has been enabled by the expectation that women are perfectly capable of earning a living. There’s work to be done on the procreation part, though.
- Aune 3y agoWas that a thing though (in the west) as the dowry was usually brought by the womans family? Wasn't it more like the womans family bying the son in order to have someone to support them. Trades was not really a thing for most people throughout history so the ability to toil in the fields were of paramount importance as the only way to support the family.
- ethanbond 3y agoWomen have always worked on farms. A solo man couldn’t create a self-sustaining farm either, yet somehow they weren’t the ones being bought and sold “for their own benefit.”
- flavius29663 3y ago> No longer purchasing women from fathers That is not how dowry worked. The bride brought the dowry, not the groom. So basically the father/family would pay the husband to be to take the daughter off their hands.
- thaumasiotes 3y agoAs you can see, dowry is a misogynistic practice because women are worthless, whereas bride price is a misogynistic practice because women are valuable.
- whiddershins 3y agoDowry is paid by the wife’s family. It’s the precise opposite of (as another commenter wrote) buying a wife.
- GuB-42 3y agoDowries are the opposite. Paid by the wife's family to the husband's family. Justified because women don't work and are therefore a financial burden. So when a couple leaves their respective family, that's less expense for the wife's family and less income for the husband's family, the dowry is supposed to balance that. It is not hard to understand why dowries are a thing of the past in western society. But it is still a thing in other parts of the world.
- dalbasal 3y agoThis is pointless semantics, like the perpetual insistence on correcting "monopoly" to "oligopsony" or whenever monopoly is discussed. No one knows the word "dower," and the term "dowry" is used pretty widely to describe the entire mess of different customs that do and did exist. IRL, these are all symbolically complex and play a role that is usually different to the symbolic one. Engagement rings are a riff on these.
- friend_and_foe 3y agoYup, a lot of people don't have realize it, but an engagement ring is a collateral to a commitment: you see no other men because we intend to marry and if I waste your time you're compensated for it with something valuable. Why anyone would use a diamond for something like this is beyond me. Dowries upon marrying is an extension of this: if I abuse you and you have to leave me you can afford to live your life with this thing I gave you.