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I find it interesting that people associate italy with good coffee. Given their reputation there the coffee is poor. Espresso is typically burned quite badly an

I find it interesting that people associate italy with good coffee. Given their reputation there the coffee is poor. Espresso is typically burned quite badly and praised as strong. Northern europe, Ireland, and the UK have far better coffee. Also Oz. At least in my experience. Also, to briefly comment on the oz conversation happening here - perth does have fantastic coffee. My favourite cafe ever is a little place called issacs in rocko.

joshvm 3y ago
Australia and New Zealand have probably the best coffee (on average) of anywhere I've been, if you like milk drinks. The UK has a lot of fantastic coffee shops, but it's still overrun with Costas and a lot of places have added flat whites to their menu, even though they can't make them well.
- cylinder714 3y ago
  Sacramento has Chocolate Fish Coffee Roasters, founded by two fellows from New Zealand: https://chocolatefishcoffee.com/ https://chocolatefishcoffee.com/
- theelous3 3y ago
  Costa and insomnia should be shuttered as a public gratuity. Absolute muck from each at their very best.
  - paulcapewell 3y ago
    Had to look up Insomnia - hadn't heard of it before in the UK. Seems to be only in Ireland and across the English midlands. https://www.insomnia.ie/nearest-coffee-shop https://www.insomnia.ie/nearest-coffee-shop
elyobo 3y ago
When I lived in Perth in 2008 the coffee was awful compared to NZ (and to Melbourne, where I ended up afterwards). I lived in Leederville and Subiaco, both with popular cafe strips, but broadly awful coffee.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- theelous3 3y ago
  Perth's come a long way then. I was therw for a few months over the oz summer. Coffee was broadly good and often great. It's spilled over, I suppose!
myspy 3y ago
The bean is everything and brands like Lavazza are chemically tasting coffee beans. Small shops and roasters with good beans produce better products and small shops with good baristas know how to extract a good cup of coffee. I guess those people are everywhere but hard to find.
speed_spread 3y ago
Nowadays Italian coffee is more about the machines and various methods of extraction than the beans themselves. I assume at some point the northeastern African connection provided Italy with better quality coffee than what was available in America but globalization and small batch roasters changed that.
grokkedit 3y ago
you're completely right. but most italians will never admit it, shunning all of the alternatives. the strange thing is, we are used to different grapes varieties that are used to produce different wines, and everyone knows which tomato goes in a sandwich, which ones are better in a caprese, which for tomato sauce. but we are all fine with not knowing which kind of coffee we drink, and not knowing how it was treated... that's why in Italy it's really rare to find someone that drinks coffee as it is, usually we add either sugar (or honey) or milk in order to mask the fact that coffee here tastes too burnt and bitter. only in the past few years specialty coffee is starting to appear in the bigger cities, and I'm finally getting used to drink coffee after a whole life of tea with milk and the occasional macchiato caldo (espresso with a dash of hot milk), unless when abroad
- lemper 3y ago
  i tried to acquire the taste coffee and honey. never succeeded. though it should be noted that I used acacia honey which is quite acid itself. so yeah, it was a dumb exercise. now I got no time to explore coffee anymore. as long as the coffee tastes bitter and a bit sweet AND goes well with cig, then I'm fine with it.
vjk800 3y ago
It seems that what is considered good coffee varies greatly. Here in Finland the traditional way to make coffee is very lightly roasted, which makes it quite acidic. Many foreigners don't think very highly of this type of coffee, but people who are used to it often prefer it to "stronger" tasting medium or dark roasted coffees. I don't know it there's any objective way to determine which coffee is "good" coffee.

joshvm 3y ago

Australia and New Zealand have probably the best coffee (on average) of anywhere I've been, if you like milk drinks. The UK has a lot of fantastic coffee shops, but it's still overrun with Costas and a lot of places have added flat whites to their menu, even though they can't make them well.

cylinder714 3y ago
Sacramento has Chocolate Fish Coffee Roasters, founded by two fellows from New Zealand: https://chocolatefishcoffee.com/ https://chocolatefishcoffee.com/
theelous3 3y ago
Costa and insomnia should be shuttered as a public gratuity. Absolute muck from each at their very best.
- paulcapewell 3y ago
  Had to look up Insomnia - hadn't heard of it before in the UK. Seems to be only in Ireland and across the English midlands. https://www.insomnia.ie/nearest-coffee-shop https://www.insomnia.ie/nearest-coffee-shop

elyobo 3y ago

When I lived in Perth in 2008 the coffee was awful compared to NZ (and to Melbourne, where I ended up afterwards). I lived in Leederville and Subiaco, both with popular cafe strips, but broadly awful coffee.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
theelous3 3y ago
Perth's come a long way then. I was therw for a few months over the oz summer. Coffee was broadly good and often great. It's spilled over, I suppose!

myspy 3y ago

The bean is everything and brands like Lavazza are chemically tasting coffee beans. Small shops and roasters with good beans produce better products and small shops with good baristas know how to extract a good cup of coffee. I guess those people are everywhere but hard to find.

speed_spread 3y ago

Nowadays Italian coffee is more about the machines and various methods of extraction than the beans themselves. I assume at some point the northeastern African connection provided Italy with better quality coffee than what was available in America but globalization and small batch roasters changed that.

grokkedit 3y ago

you're completely right. but most italians will never admit it, shunning all of the alternatives. the strange thing is, we are used to different grapes varieties that are used to produce different wines, and everyone knows which tomato goes in a sandwich, which ones are better in a caprese, which for tomato sauce. but we are all fine with not knowing which kind of coffee we drink, and not knowing how it was treated... that's why in Italy it's really rare to find someone that drinks coffee as it is, usually we add either sugar (or honey) or milk in order to mask the fact that coffee here tastes too burnt and bitter. only in the past few years specialty coffee is starting to appear in the bigger cities, and I'm finally getting used to drink coffee after a whole life of tea with milk and the occasional macchiato caldo (espresso with a dash of hot milk), unless when abroad

lemper 3y ago
i tried to acquire the taste coffee and honey. never succeeded. though it should be noted that I used acacia honey which is quite acid itself. so yeah, it was a dumb exercise. now I got no time to explore coffee anymore. as long as the coffee tastes bitter and a bit sweet AND goes well with cig, then I'm fine with it.

vjk800 3y ago

It seems that what is considered good coffee varies greatly. Here in Finland the traditional way to make coffee is very lightly roasted, which makes it quite acidic. Many foreigners don't think very highly of this type of coffee, but people who are used to it often prefer it to "stronger" tasting medium or dark roasted coffees. I don't know it there's any objective way to determine which coffee is "good" coffee.