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Magic has been such a huge part of my life. At my lowest point after moving to a new town, we were gifted a pile of cards from one of my dad’s coworkers. It was

by thom 3y ago

Magic has been such a huge part of my life. At my lowest point after moving to a new town, we were gifted a pile of cards from one of my dad’s coworkers. It was the only thing keeping me going and more or less saved my relationship with my dad. It’s still, for me, the best game ever designed and in my 40s with 3 kids I still play and watch hours of content every week. Heck, we even have some hall of famers on our cap sheet at my current startup which somehow fills me with pride. My son has introduced me to Yu Gi Oh and Pokémon but they both lack the fundamental elegance of MtG. It’s probably not fair to call Magic simple given the size and complexity of the rules at this point, but at the lowest level it really is just about combining simple things to achieve infinite variety. The best cards have short text and chime nicely with the theme of the card and wider story. The worst are like Yu Gi Oh, a page of complex tiny text that tries to do too much. One of the saddest things is that, as you become better at the game with a deeper grasp of the rules and the cards, you never really recapture that feeling of the early days, when every card was exciting. Draft comes close (picking cards from random booster packs to try and piece together a deck) and Cube certainly captures the nostalgia (drafting with packs made of your favourite or most powerful cards). But still the smell of an opened booster takes you back. Wizards has made many mistakes over the years and but Magic is extremely healthy and several recent sets have been all-time greats. Both Magic Online (the ugly but fairly complete online client that has _every_ card) and Arena (the more modern client that’s a bit simpler and easier to play but only has recent stuff) are actively maintained so you can play anything, anytime. My only sadness now is that I never really made it to the pro tour, but there’s always time.

pavlov 3y ago
> “as you become better […] you never really recapture that feeling of the early days” It’s the same with everything, isn’t it. There’s a stage in life when you’re relatively young and it makes sense to go deeper into whatever inspires you. But as you grow older it’s probably good to make an effort to try more new things, to get back some of that feeling of discovery. It may not work out quite like that but it’s worth to keep trying.
- thom 3y ago
  Yeah, same with programming certainly - the feeling as a kid of just pushing through to get something done no matter what the code looks like. Now you’re second guessing everything and trying to do a professional job. But it’s rare as an adult to be able to throw yourself into a new pursuit without judgment. With the internet everyone knows what ‘good’ looks like, everybody’s hustling, everything’s professionalised. The ability to experience raw, messy joy is something you’re not taught to cherish.
  - gota 3y ago
    About programming - I find that I relive some of that initial wonder of discovery when teaching
    - thom 3y ago
      Huh, you're not wrong. The other time I quite shamelessly hacked something together with my son in Roblox Studio just to show what was possible. I did have to resist scorning all the snippets of code I came across (and I do think there are valuable design lessons to learn on that platform) and just did the simplest possible thing.
      - gota 3y ago
        Absolutely - I think teaching programming in a language, framework or paradigm you (the teacher) does not know has huge advantages for a specific level of newcomer In my experience it is a good lesson for about 50% of absolute beginners, but a great lesson for 99% of folks who have just started grokking their "first" language etc. I am now in the process of teaching an absolute beginner in my family and in this case I'll stick to my specialties because I can tell they'll become frustrated if they can't get _something_ working on their own. Thus, I bet they want clear "unstucking" help rather than a "let me google that with you". They are more concerned with the 1st thing, and not the broader "how does someone who know this stuff goes about learning?" Anyway, I digress - in any case these initial lessons are great for me as a teacher to experience that discovery through them
throwmeout123 3y ago
Learn to manaweave, cheat, call “judge”, fix matches and artistically stack the deck when cracking fetches and you’ll be there in no time. Too much variance to go regularly 9-0 and stuff like that
- nadermx 3y ago
  Damn you sound jaded, made JSS and Nationals without doing any of that.
  - throwmeout123 3y ago
    Yeah a bit, been a victim of cheating and rule lawyering. My paper magic experience evolved to “pay attention to what the other guy is doing” rather than thinking about my game plan. As a draw go player, it becomes unsustainable for my mental energy.
    - thom 3y ago
      How recent are these experiences? Sad to note that Sheldon Menery died recently, but he had as much influence as anybody on cracking down on cheating in organised play.
Obscurity4340 3y ago
Whats the most economical and easiest way for someone to introduce themselves to MtG?
- thom 3y ago
  Online, the answer is Arena. You can get started for free and if you never want to spend anything it’s possible to grind the resources you need to acquire new cards and compete in tournaments. You can get all the way to money prizes this way. Constructed formats are probably more economical than draft because you don’t have to constantly pay for packs. In real life, every player has thousands of cards they’d happily dump on you if you just want to learn and have fun. You won’t be able to build a very competitive deck (or one up to date with current formats) but it’s fun to play over the table with friends. The best investment for physical cards is probably the Commander format. This is a particularly social, multiplayer format, where all cards are legal (except for powerful stuff that’s been banned). You can build a deck over years and it’ll always be valid (if not good). This is also available on Arena, but most of the fun is getting round a table. If you want to get competitive, there’s lots of content out there and many popular streamers to learn from. Magic Online is probably where the highest skilled players still play and test for tournaments but you’re unlikely to go infinite there.
  - tstrimple 3y ago
    If folks want to get into paper magic, the commander pre-constructed decks are a solid place to start. Some are almost competitive and require just a few tweaks to get into much better shape. They do a good job of packaging the thematic elements as well.
rograndom 3y ago
Magic was probably the first instance of where I learned that sometimes it's ok to not try to "solve" games or put too much thought into being competitive. I'm not sure how my friend group found Magic originally, but it was around like 3rd edition or so? We all really liked it and spend way too much money on cards. We would play around the kitchen table in a single game, 5, 6, 7 people all with decks a mile high building huge armies before someone finally gave in to break the peace and attack, usually resulting in everyone else attacking them. Great fun. I had some access to the internet at work and during a break I started looking up stuff about Magic and found a deck that won a tournament recently. It was a red burn deck, and the tournament was a draft, which I had no idea what that meant, but I had a "winning" decklist and I had most of the cards in there. I traded with my friends for the other stuff I was missing and we set about to play. I think I killed everyone one after another with that "stupid deck" with cards the others just flat out gave to me because they were "bad". I took that deck to a tournament a couple of weeks later and found out what the difference between drafts and constructed decks were, mainly that my deck needed 20 more cards. I still get fourth place and a box of booster packs. My friends one by one stopped playing not too long after that. I went on to win most local tournaments and play in a handful of pro tour events, but none were ever as much fun as sitting around the kitchen table.

by thom 3y ago

pavlov 3y ago

> “as you become better […] you never really recapture that feeling of the early days” It’s the same with everything, isn’t it. There’s a stage in life when you’re relatively young and it makes sense to go deeper into whatever inspires you. But as you grow older it’s probably good to make an effort to try more new things, to get back some of that feeling of discovery. It may not work out quite like that but it’s worth to keep trying.

thom 3y ago
Yeah, same with programming certainly - the feeling as a kid of just pushing through to get something done no matter what the code looks like. Now you’re second guessing everything and trying to do a professional job. But it’s rare as an adult to be able to throw yourself into a new pursuit without judgment. With the internet everyone knows what ‘good’ looks like, everybody’s hustling, everything’s professionalised. The ability to experience raw, messy joy is something you’re not taught to cherish.
- gota 3y ago
  About programming - I find that I relive some of that initial wonder of discovery when teaching
  - thom 3y ago
    Huh, you're not wrong. The other time I quite shamelessly hacked something together with my son in Roblox Studio just to show what was possible. I did have to resist scorning all the snippets of code I came across (and I do think there are valuable design lessons to learn on that platform) and just did the simplest possible thing.
    - gota 3y ago
      Absolutely - I think teaching programming in a language, framework or paradigm you (the teacher) does not know has huge advantages for a specific level of newcomer In my experience it is a good lesson for about 50% of absolute beginners, but a great lesson for 99% of folks who have just started grokking their "first" language etc. I am now in the process of teaching an absolute beginner in my family and in this case I'll stick to my specialties because I can tell they'll become frustrated if they can't get _something_ working on their own. Thus, I bet they want clear "unstucking" help rather than a "let me google that with you". They are more concerned with the 1st thing, and not the broader "how does someone who know this stuff goes about learning?" Anyway, I digress - in any case these initial lessons are great for me as a teacher to experience that discovery through them

throwmeout123 3y ago

Learn to manaweave, cheat, call “judge”, fix matches and artistically stack the deck when cracking fetches and you’ll be there in no time. Too much variance to go regularly 9-0 and stuff like that

nadermx 3y ago
Damn you sound jaded, made JSS and Nationals without doing any of that.
- throwmeout123 3y ago
  Yeah a bit, been a victim of cheating and rule lawyering. My paper magic experience evolved to “pay attention to what the other guy is doing” rather than thinking about my game plan. As a draw go player, it becomes unsustainable for my mental energy.
  - thom 3y ago
    How recent are these experiences? Sad to note that Sheldon Menery died recently, but he had as much influence as anybody on cracking down on cheating in organised play.

Obscurity4340 3y ago

Whats the most economical and easiest way for someone to introduce themselves to MtG?

thom 3y ago
Online, the answer is Arena. You can get started for free and if you never want to spend anything it’s possible to grind the resources you need to acquire new cards and compete in tournaments. You can get all the way to money prizes this way. Constructed formats are probably more economical than draft because you don’t have to constantly pay for packs. In real life, every player has thousands of cards they’d happily dump on you if you just want to learn and have fun. You won’t be able to build a very competitive deck (or one up to date with current formats) but it’s fun to play over the table with friends. The best investment for physical cards is probably the Commander format. This is a particularly social, multiplayer format, where all cards are legal (except for powerful stuff that’s been banned). You can build a deck over years and it’ll always be valid (if not good). This is also available on Arena, but most of the fun is getting round a table. If you want to get competitive, there’s lots of content out there and many popular streamers to learn from. Magic Online is probably where the highest skilled players still play and test for tournaments but you’re unlikely to go infinite there.
- tstrimple 3y ago
  If folks want to get into paper magic, the commander pre-constructed decks are a solid place to start. Some are almost competitive and require just a few tweaks to get into much better shape. They do a good job of packaging the thematic elements as well.

rograndom 3y ago

Magic was probably the first instance of where I learned that sometimes it's ok to not try to "solve" games or put too much thought into being competitive. I'm not sure how my friend group found Magic originally, but it was around like 3rd edition or so? We all really liked it and spend way too much money on cards. We would play around the kitchen table in a single game, 5, 6, 7 people all with decks a mile high building huge armies before someone finally gave in to break the peace and attack, usually resulting in everyone else attacking them. Great fun. I had some access to the internet at work and during a break I started looking up stuff about Magic and found a deck that won a tournament recently. It was a red burn deck, and the tournament was a draft, which I had no idea what that meant, but I had a "winning" decklist and I had most of the cards in there. I traded with my friends for the other stuff I was missing and we set about to play. I think I killed everyone one after another with that "stupid deck" with cards the others just flat out gave to me because they were "bad". I took that deck to a tournament a couple of weeks later and found out what the difference between drafts and constructed decks were, mainly that my deck needed 20 more cards. I still get fourth place and a box of booster packs. My friends one by one stopped playing not too long after that. I went on to win most local tournaments and play in a handful of pro tour events, but none were ever as much fun as sitting around the kitchen table.